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+--- Thread: Should the Voynich manuscript be called the Mondragone manuscript or another name? (/thread-3211.html)
Should the Voynich manuscript be called the Mondragone manuscript or another name? - Mark Knowles - 17-05-2020
The name the "Voynich manuscript" has always bothered me as "Voynich" is a Polish name(East European) name and people can easily be misled on seeing the name to thinking it is East European in origin.
Anyway Wilfred Voynich did not discover the manuscript merely rediscovered or arguably maybe really just publicised it internationally.
And when the name of the author(s) are definitively known will it be renamed?
Now, I know enough to know the name will never be changed, once something gets a name whether justified or not it almost never gets changed. However I can't help but feel that Voynich has unfairly got his name attached to the manuscript based on his lucky find.
Anyway, none of this is serious, just a thought.
RE: Should the Voynich manuscript be called the Mondragone manuscript or another name? - Koen G - 17-05-2020
Didn't Voynich himself call it differently though? Something like "the cipher manuscript"? So it did change names, as "the Voynich manuscript" only became the current name after Voynich's death. (Someone who knows more about this matter might correct me on this).
Anyway I like the name. Even if confusion were an issue, to me it does not sound exceptionally Polish, it's not like it's called the Kowalski manuscript or something. Since Voynich is not an extremely common name and hard to place geographically, it even suits the manuscript's mystery.
And he was the one to bring it into public knowledge, so I also don't feel like he would not deserve the honor.
Finally, all introductions tend to explain where the name comes from, so I don't think there is much opportunity for confusion. Did anyone ever think the MS was Polish just because it is named after a Polish person?
It is also not unheard of to name an object after a person who played a key role in its recent history. The Elgin Marbles for example.
RE: Should the Voynich manuscript be called the Mondragone manuscript or another name? - Searcher - 17-05-2020
It is usual practice to give a name of a discoverer to a manuscript or any other written document, especially if it is enciphered or even just written in a rare or ancient language. People usually already give a name to a manuscript before it will be translated and identified, as even translation turns out to be a very slow process.
RE: Should the Voynich manuscript be called the Mondragone manuscript or another name? - Koen G - 17-05-2020
Not to mention that many manuscript collections are named after relatively modern collectors or benefactors. The Beinecke family got their name connected to the manuscript because they sponsored the library building.
RE: Should the Voynich manuscript be called the Mondragone manuscript or another name? - Mark Knowles - 17-05-2020
Correct me if I am wrong, but the "ich" name ending seems to be associated with slavic origins. Well, its true it seems unlikely that Voynich himself called it the "Voynich manuscript".
I would think the Elgin Marbles are a sore point especially for the Greeks who I doubt approve of the name given it is their heritage.
I suppose the name sounds exotic from the point of view of someone English. If it was discovered by "John Smith" and called the "Smith manuscript" maybe I would have not been curious about it initially.
I was thinking of the antikythera mechanism which is named after the place it was found not named after the finder. The name of the finder seems arbitrary, whereas the place it was found seems more relevant.
Anyway, there is not a lot to be said on this subject, but this is something, given my associating the manuscript with Italy I have found a bit incongruous.
RE: Should the Voynich manuscript be called the Mondragone manuscript or another name? - Koen G - 17-05-2020
A factor to take into account here is that when Voynich got his hands on the manuscript, it was one of many, and he tried to sell it like his other manuscripts. Also since we know it was once in Prague, naming it after a place in Italy might be misleading as well.
RE: Should the Voynich manuscript be called the Mondragone manuscript or another name? - ReneZ - 18-05-2020
The Rothschild canticles are named after one of its later owners. It is also not the only book that belonged to Edmond de Rothschild. It will be easy to find plenty of similar examples.
Further, a few facts.
- Voynich certainly never called it the Voynich MS. He called it his Roger Bacon cipher MS, or sometimes just simply his cipher MS
- Calling it the Mondragone MS woud be wrong since we don't know for certain that it was ever in Villa Mondragone, and there is good reason to doubt it. We do know for certain that it was owned by Voynich
- His first name is Wilfrid, not Wilfred.
- His Polish name was Wojnicz. The name Voynich is the anglicised form
Also, I can't see what could be wrong with a Polish name
RE: Should the Voynich manuscript be called the Mondragone manuscript or another name? - RenegadeHealer - 18-05-2020
(17-05-2020, 11:11 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Correct me if I am wrong, but the "ich" name ending seems to be associated with slavic origins.
My understanding is that this ending is used for patronymics (“son of...”) among the Slavic peoples, and is cognate with English “-ish”, French “-esque”, German “-isch”. Anyone here who speaks Polish will have to verify this, but I believe the surname Wojnicz means roughly “son of war”.
Interestingly, there might very well be no one in the US today surnamed Voynich. This spelling was his creation, he did not immigrate with any blood relatives, and he and Ethel had no children. Polish names often got mangled or Anglicized (or manglicized) on arrival to the US. I have seen a couple of names that struck me as possibly connected to Voynich way way back, including two people family surnamed Warson. There was never a good opportunity to ask any of these folks about their genealogy, though.
RE: Should the Voynich manuscript be called the Mondragone manuscript or another name? - ReneZ - 18-05-2020
(18-05-2020, 05:55 AM)RenegadeHealer Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.there might very well be no one in the US today surnamed Voynich
Interestingly, there are
RE: Should the Voynich manuscript be called the Mondragone manuscript or another name? - Anton - 18-05-2020
There are larger things to rename.
Take, for example, America. There were people in America prior to Amerigo Vespucci. There were even Europeans in America prior to Amerigo Vespucci.
Vespucci did not discover America, nor even rediscovered it. He just publicised it internationally a bit as a "new world".
He never used the name America himself.
So, time and again, the word America bothers me as an Italian name, while in reality America has no Italian origin whatsoever.
That lucky guy Vespucci just got his name unfairly attached!
