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+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: Thinking about anomalous gallows... (/thread-3156.html)
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - LisaFaginDavis - 14-04-2020
I haven't finished my own scribe-by-scribe examination of the non-standard gallows features, but it's pretty clear already that Scribe 1 is much more fond of such things than are the other scribes. That implies that there is a degree of choice involved about when to use them. There are clearly some examples that are merely decorative, in particular those that are stretched and filled in some way but that are still morphologically standard (the stretched [p], for example, in the middle of 78r). In other words, the glyph is stretched and flexed, but the basic form is standard. I'm not ready to give up the notion that those with extra loops might be ligatures though...although Emma makes a strong case. I'm not sure what to think about those whose second leg is in the wrong place ([f] or [p] whose crossbar extends downward instead of finishing horizontally or with a small flourish).
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - -JKP- - 14-04-2020
There is also the question of whether there's distinction in meaning between k and the variant of k that has the crossbar on the top of the glyph instead of partway down.
If these were ligatures in a European language, it would matter. It would be like the difference between ligature t-"es" (the abbreviation symbol that looks like a loop with a descender) and i-"es". But in Voynichese, maybe it's just the way a certain scribe does it.
Or, to give another example. In Latin languages, these were two different abbreviations: g m (-cis and -ris), but in Voynichese, they might not be two different glyphs (they are positionally similar).
It also seems as though this question about the top-bar gallows and the mid-bar gallows (EVA-k and its variant) and the -cis/-ris shapes is more accessible (less subjective) and easier to investigate than some of the others.
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - LisaFaginDavis - 14-04-2020
I think that's probably a scribal variant, having to do with whether the pen is lifted or not between the ascender and the crossbar. My Scribe 5 (e.g. f. 40r) tends to draw the cross bar from at or near the top of the ascender, making the glyph in a single stroke.
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - -JKP- - 14-04-2020
(14-04-2020, 04:43 PM)LisaFaginDavis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I think that's probably a scribal variant, having to do with whether the pen is lifted or not between the ascender and the crossbar. My Scribe 5 (e.g. f. 40r) tends to draw the cross bar from at or near the top of the ascender, making the glyph in a single stroke.
If some of these can be shown to consistently be scribal variants, that strengthens your argument about the number of scribes (corroborating evidence).
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - LisaFaginDavis - 14-04-2020
That's the idea! Stay tuned...
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - -JKP- - 14-04-2020
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RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - DONJCH - 14-04-2020
I have meant to ask the following for quite a while: JKP has talked about the two forms of Eva -d, I am sure we all have seen them, to me one looks like an 8 and the other more like cP. Are these also scribal variants?
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - Aga Tentakulus - 14-04-2020
I have to judge every character, whether it is written or intentional.
I've been chasing the system for years now.
I have to judge such variants as intentional, because they also occur on other characters.
So a character where at first sight looks the same can contain several information.
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]It is important how the signs relate to each other. This is an indication of a system.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - LisaFaginDavis - 14-04-2020
It does look like there are two different ways of writing [d], but i haven't decided whether I think these are actually different or are just two ways of writing the same graph. I keep changing my mind. The [cP] type, as it were, looks like a tail-less [g] to me, but I would leave it to the linguists to determine if they might serve similar linguistic functions.
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - Aga Tentakulus - 14-04-2020
The "cP" combination looks weird.
The "c" was added after the fact. Why?
It keeps me wide awake.