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+--- Thread: Thinking about anomalous gallows... (/thread-3156.html)
Thinking about anomalous gallows... - LisaFaginDavis - 13-04-2020
Hi, everyone,
I'm currently working on an essay about the writing system in general, and it's got me thinking some of those fancy anomalous gallows. Has anyone considered that some of these may actually be ligatures of two different gallows? I know it's exceedingly rare to see two gallows in a row, but it's not impossible. The examples below are all top-line of a paragraph, so it makes sense that they would get the fancy top-line treatment, whereas the few other examples of two-gallows-in-a-row are not top line.
For example, this one on 87v:
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Perhaps actually [pf]?
And this one on 101r1:
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Perhaps actually [fp]?
And this one on 86v6:
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Perhaps actually [ctfh]?
I'm also finding myself quite enchanted by the way the crossbar of a top-line [t] ([k] as well, I assume) can form a bridge from one occurrence to another nearby. Scribe 1 in particular seems quite fond of this (here's a nice example on 8r):
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And my absolute favorite on 100r. So creative and efficient!
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I also love this one on 90r which seems to be both a ligature AND a bridge:
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Maybe something like [ctphdacthy]? Could be a [k] instead of a [t] each time, I suppose, depending on how you interpret that lower left loop.
I thought there might be a thread on this already, but I couldn't find one...
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - Emma May Smith - 13-04-2020
There are so few double gallows that there would be more ligatures than non-ligature occurrences. The appearance of these special gallows in the top line of paragraphs suggests that they only did this where space permitted. As you say, they're "fancy" versions of what would be plain glyphs elsewhere.
The variety of shapes makes it difficult to understand how they would be read. Not only by us but by readers who knew the script. How much information could a reader get from them if they were unique? Would they understand that they are two glyphs joined together and figure out the constituent parts?
We tend to categorise gallows by 1) the left loop (presence or absence) and 2) the right leg (touching the ground or bent). How did the writers see them? Maybe any other loops or bends didn't carry meaning and could be elaborated wilfully without altering the glyph? Elizabeth I of England had an elaborate signature with loops on multiple letters. The reader knows that these elaborations can be discarded without losing meaning.
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - Koen G - 13-04-2020
The only thing I can recall is a 2017 thread about "ascender fantasies", which I think is what they are. The thread didn't really take off and devolved into a terminology discussion.
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RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - nablator - 13-04-2020
About broad gallows (straddling several words or not) :
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RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - LisaFaginDavis - 13-04-2020
I knew there had to be a thread! And I see that Wladimir had the same thought. Thank you!
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - -JKP- - 14-04-2020
Quote:I'm currently working on an essay about the writing system in general, and it's got me thinking some of those fancy anomalous gallows. Has anyone considered that some of these may actually be ligatures of two different gallows? I know it's exceedingly rare to see two gallows in a row, but it's not impossible. The examples below are all top-line of a paragraph, so it makes sense that they would get the fancy top-line treatment, whereas the few other examples of two-gallows-in-a-row are not top line.
Yes, I've posted about that and have posted quite a few images, as well. I don't know how easily I can find the thread. I'll try.
It's my belief that some are ligatures and some are simply embellished (like the ones with bumps and dots).
I have also mentioned that some of the ones that look like they might be ligatured gallows are combined and stacked in the Greek style rather than the Latin style.
I think some of the best examples are the ones that are combined in a "staircased" style, which is exactly how they stack letters like non-cursive gamma-gamma in Greek scripts.
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - -JKP- - 14-04-2020
Here's one of them, but there are others with more charts. This one shows the similarity to Greek combinations that are stack and superposed.
The VMS benched gallows are superposed. The ones that might be combination gallows (ligatured gallows) are like the one on the right:
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Post #50, but there are others in other threads.
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - Aga Tentakulus - 14-04-2020
In the link to the topic, at picture no.25,
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I have a theory.
Don't laugh now.
On the few words where we see in German that the author somehow ran out of ideas.
So that he put the German "tz" in one word. meaning double s (ss).
That would explain me why there are almost no character repetitions for ( mm, nn, tt, ff, ss etc. )
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - -JKP- - 14-04-2020
For example... I think this may be a double EVA-p. A ligatured p p.
I sometimes wonder if the embellished ones (the ones that don't look ligatured) are there for creative reasons, or if they are there to artfully hide the fact that some are double gallows (I don't know if they are but I strongly suspect that some of them are).
RE: Thinking about anomalous gallows... - -JKP- - 14-04-2020
(14-04-2020, 12:18 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In the link to the topic, at picture no.25,
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I have a theory.
Don't laugh now.
On the few words where we see in German that the author somehow ran out of ideas.
So that he put the German "tz" in one word. meaning double s (ss).
That would explain me why there are almost no character repetitions for ( mm, nn, tt, ff, ss etc. )
If such a thing exists in the VMS, I think this is the best candidate:
But I'm not sure. Maybe it's something like this: