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+--- Thread: [split] Rich SantaColoma's comments to Lisa Fagin Davis (/thread-3138.html)
RE: [split] Rich SantaColoma's comments to Lisa Fagin Davis - R. Sale - 31-03-2020
That sort of change to the predominance of the brain over the heart, or some other site was a sort of cultural thing, happening in different times depending on the historical era, eventually becoming generally predominant. What are your ideas on the location and chronology where this might have taken place? Or is it late enough that there is no problem?
RE: [split] Rich SantaColoma's comments to Lisa Fagin Davis - Aga Tentakulus - 01-04-2020
Time and place can't be put into words.
The ancient Egyptians and Greeks already knew If something is broken in the head, the rest doesn't work properly either.
RE: [split] Rich SantaColoma's comments to Lisa Fagin Davis - Aga Tentakulus - 01-04-2020
To the German words.
To make it more visible I cut out the teaching part of the page.
There is no difference between the VM text and the German words in the color and consistency of the ink.
Maybe there are two different people where they wrote and drew, but for sure the same ink. Probably also the same pen.
The marked character means nothing else than "and". This can also be found in other Alemannic written books. ( Bavarian dialect ). It is also an indication of the possible place of origin, since it is used regionally. But this is a different subject.
How could a forger ( Voynich ) have known this ? One must read it to understand what the sign means. Today it is in the Wiki.
If I take the German words "und dann muss das", this is the answer to the VM sentence above. So the VM text and the German text are in context.
Why should you do this if the VM text has no meaning ?
This is an indication that the VM text makes sense.
@Rich
I think we have already had this discussion bye Klaus Schmeh in 2015.
Peter M.
It does the same thing on page 116. It combines 2 VM words in the context of the upper text (recipe or curse) with German text.
Why would someone do this if it is not necessary ?
RE: [split] Rich SantaColoma's comments to Lisa Fagin Davis - -JKP- - 01-04-2020
Aga Tentakulus Wrote:
The character for "and" is not written like that. Here are some examples of "et" from my files (note that these are in scripts that bear some resemblance to the VMS notes):
I'm not sure what the VMS character is because there's no context (we don't even know if it was written by the same person who added the text that follows), but it could be an open-top "p" with a long serif, or it could be Old English wynn, or Old English thorn with a short stem. Thorn is less likely because it usually has a longer stem. Maybe long-r but it isn't the typical shape.
The loop is a bit truncated for an open-top "p" but a few scribes wrote it like that. What is distracting is the long leading serif (approach stroke) if it is "p"... BUT all the "i" chars on 116v also have long approach strokes, so if it's the same style, it could be "p".
It is very close to the way many scribes wrote Old English wynn. They didn't always connect the top and modern readers who aren't familiar with Old English alphabets sometimes perceive it as p or y.
RE: [split] Rich SantaColoma's comments to Lisa Fagin Davis - Aga Tentakulus - 01-04-2020
from Wiki
that's nice of you to try to explain my language, but you're wrong.
Like I said, it's regional. It means "and."
RE: [split] Rich SantaColoma's comments to Lisa Fagin Davis - -JKP- - 01-04-2020
I am not explaining your language, although I read manuscripts from your area quite regularly and I have noted the many dialects.
The letter "y" is not written that way. Neither is "u" or "o".
Here are some examples of medieval "y". They do not look like the VMS character above:
I am trying to explain something about how medieval characters are written and I have never seen that character in a manuscript from your region, unless it is the letter "p" with a long leading serif and an open top. But if it is a "p", then it does not mean "and".
Show me a sentence from a 15th century manuscript in your dialect (or even if it's not your dialect, it's okay as long as it is from your region) that has that character. You can find it in Old English manuscripts, but not in 15th-century Bohemian/Tirolian/Bavarian manuscripts as the word "and" (if it is a long-serif "p", then you can sometimes find it, but usually it is not so narrow and usually the connecting part does not slant like that).
I have looked at hundreds, probably thousands of German manuscripts and even if it's written in German, many of them use the "et" symbol instead of the vernacular.
RE: [split] Rich SantaColoma's comments to Lisa Fagin Davis - -JKP- - 01-04-2020
We don't know what dialect this is. It's too short and one character is overwritten, so that extends the possible vocabulary when trying to interpret it (along with the many spellings used in the Middle Ages).
We don't know if it was written by the same person who added the notes on 116v. The "m" is distinctly different and more characteristic of the Veneto region than the style of "m" on 116v. The final-ess is a different style, as well, it's a B-shape rather than an 8-shape. I'm not positive, because the "l" is similar, but I think it might be different handwriting from 116v.
I don't know what the first character is (maybe a slightly atypical "p") but it is a close shape-mate for Old English "wynn". The word immediately following it is "ven" which is almost a homonym for "wynn" in medieval terms (in Latin they pronounced "v" more like an English w. It was NOT pronounced like the "v" in English "verse". So, "ven" may have been pronounced "wen" in other languages also).
So, for the sake of getting as many possible interpretations out as possible, here is another one:
RE: [split] Rich SantaColoma's comments to Lisa Fagin Davis - Aga Tentakulus - 01-04-2020
It is alemanic / Southern Bavarian dialect / Tyrolean spelling.
You use the "y" only as "and". Otherwise it is not used.
it's hard to find something from the region, but look it up.
It may not be clear to you, but it is to me.
RE: [split] Rich SantaColoma's comments to Lisa Fagin Davis - Aga Tentakulus - 01-04-2020
Now you have something, and it's not even misspelled. For me, the sentence is very clear, and it is in context with the rest.
Even if you don't know that, the text is in southern Bavarian.
To make sure that it fits, I'll smash a few more dovetails with the hammer. Because these only exist south of the Alps, and that's where the southern Bavarian dialect is at home too.
RE: [split] Rich SantaColoma's comments to Lisa Fagin Davis - Aga Tentakulus - 01-04-2020
@Rich
With the microscopes you show me, I have my problems.
The comparison is really more than just good. Here I can understand why people are sceptical about the time line.
I have no comparisons for.
If I was in a pizzeria in Italy, I would say it was a pepper mill. If I believed that, I'd still be slapping myself.