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+--- Thread: My Queries about the Manuscript (/thread-3078.html)
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My Queries about the Manuscript - caitlin_B200 - 31-01-2020
Qurie 1 - How did the scientists working on the manuscript, decide that the manuscript was from Italy. I did some background research on the manuscript, and I found it was made out of cowskin vellum. Cow skin vellum was used predominantly in England and France, not Italy. In Italy, goats skin vellum was used instead.
Quire 2- Why do people think that Bacon wrote the manuscript? The manuscript has been carbon dated to the 15th century. Bacon was born and had died by the start of the 13th century, thats 2 century's to early.
From what I have gathered from some basic reading about the manuscript, I believe that it was written in France, not Italy. I don't know if this is helpful, but could someone please answer my questions?
Thank you
Caitlin
RE: My Queries about the Manuscript - nablator - 31-01-2020
(31-01-2020, 12:34 PM)caitlin_B200 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.How did the scientists working on the manuscript, decide that the manuscript was from Italy.
You can find all sorts of speculations about its origin but nothing definitive.
Quote:I did some background research on the manuscript, and I found it was made out of cowskin vellum. Cow skin vellum was used predominantly in England and France, not Italy. In Italy, goats skin vellum was used instead.
Predominantly yes, but not exclusively. A study here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Quote:Why do people think that Bacon wrote the manuscript?
Voynich and Newbold did. Manly soundly discredited everything Newbold wrote and then of course radiocarbon dating ended the debate.
RE: My Queries about the Manuscript - davidjackson - 31-01-2020
1.- Protein testing in around 2014 determined that the manuscript is made of calfskin. To the best of my knowledge it has not been definitely said where the calves came from.
However, some imagery specialists have suggested that parts of the manuscript imagery (ie the crenellated towers of the castle) indicate an Italian origin.
2.- The Bacon hypothesis is a very old one that has nowadays been discredited for many reasons; however, it was the one put forwards by the original modern owner of the manuscript, Voynich, possibly for commercial reasons (Bacon was popular at the time and he wanted to sell the manuscript).
RE: My Queries about the Manuscript - Aga Tentakulus - 31-01-2020
About the possible origin of the VM I wrote some things about it at Nick.
Actually I wanted to write a whole essay about the topic, but I haven't done it yet.
this is only an overview, there are some more hints. But it points to the basic possibilities.
Unfortunately you can't insert pictures at Nick's site, so I was forced to post them on Facebook.
A bit tedious, but it works.
Start from top to bottom. All posts under Peter, or Peter M.
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RE: My Queries about the Manuscript - davidjackson - 01-02-2020
Why not collect them and post them here on the forum? You can add as many photos, documents, etc as you want to.
RE: My Queries about the Manuscript - Aga Tentakulus - 01-02-2020
Yeah, I could do that. It involves a lot of work. Giving the pictures an English text and translating everything into English.
Not interesting for me anymore, since I have actually finished the topic of origin so far.
I am now hunting the encryption system.
Not to get it wrong, I'm not looking for words. These are just trash in the search for the system.
Which gets pretty funny, since the garbage tells me that page f86v3 is about nutrition.
RE: My Queries about the Manuscript - Koen G - 01-02-2020
Determining the place where the MS was made is really tricky, especially because manuscripts (so also potential sources) are designed to be movable. And people capable of making manuscripts (scribes, illustrators...) often went international as well. So until we have further evidence, there is no way to determine where exactly it was made.
In my opinion there are more elements pointing towards a time (early 15th century), as supported by radiocarbon dating. But place is much harder. Beinecke curator Raymond Clemens confirmed this (I think he said something like it could be made anywhere around the Mediterranean).
RE: My Queries about the Manuscript - bi3mw - 01-02-2020
I think the origin can best be deduced from the design of the illustrations. When I make stylistic comparisons, I often come to Alsace or the Lake Constance region. This is of course very speculative and far from being proven.
I would not overestimate the swallowtail merlons in this context. One can only safely assume that the author has seen or heard of them. But that does not automatically mean that the VMS was also written in Northern Italy.
RE: My Queries about the Manuscript - Aga Tentakulus - 01-02-2020
Viewed individually, the indications do not say much.
But how do they compare.
What is the position of the battlements to the crown ( Kronen ) and the German text to the -bre ending.
Why is there no difference in the ink on 66. What makes the yellow in the bucket, and how does the color relate to the hair. There are more hints than it looks at first sight.
How do I reconcile all references without using "it could also".
Alsace would be linguistically possible, it is still in the Alemanic language area. What one must not do is to rely too firmly on drawings by Lauber, even if they have some things in common.
RE: My Queries about the Manuscript - Anton - 01-02-2020
"Italy" is something vague and misleading, it's just some common misconception which crawled into Wikipedia, this would-be knowledge-reference, and nobody takes the trouble to correct that.
That's based on the swallowtail merlons, but there was no "Italy" in those times, and the region in question could well fall into the territory of modern Switzerland, Austria, Germany or Italy. Of course, as already hinted above, the merlons suggest nothing beside that the person who depicted them was aware of their existence. That does not mean that he sat in a swallowtail castle. Maybe he was in need to specify a certain region on the map or to make some political hint. Not all walls in the Rosettes are swallowtail.