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+--- Thread: More cleartext in the MS? (/thread-3060.html)
More cleartext in the MS? - ReneZ - 22-01-2020
This has been mentioned before, but I am not sure if it was in this forum.
On f68r2 there is a moon with a face near the top and a sun with a face near the bottom.
Both have circular texts around them. For the bottom one, there is one word, between 08:00 and 09:00, that does not look like Voynichese writing, but like cleartext. However, it is not all that easy to read.
Who can make anything of this?
EDIT: does it say 'sond' ? Could this be some dialect version of 'Sonne' (German for Sun)?
RE: More cleartext in the MS? - VViews - 22-01-2020
It does look unusual.
Voynichese.com reads it as koiin, but I really don't see that.
RE: More cleartext in the MS? - Koen G - 22-01-2020
Interesting.
Doesn't the first letter look more like an F with the crossbar?
About dialect sond for Sonne, I'm not sure where the D would come from, does such a form exist?
RE: More cleartext in the MS? - Aga Tentakulus - 22-01-2020
A dirty "st" ( stond ) would still make sense.
" a stond = eine Stund(e) = one hour "
RE: More cleartext in the MS? - Paris - 22-01-2020
Maybe it's "fond".
1. it's a french verb.
For example : "il fond" = he melts
2. it's a french expression.
"à fond" = fully, thoroughly.
I doubt that this expression was used in 15th century.
RE: More cleartext in the MS? - Aga Tentakulus - 22-01-2020
Morgen-stond hat Gold im Mund. Morning hour has gold in his mouth.
Otherwise....no idea
RE: More cleartext in the MS? - -JKP- - 22-01-2020
(22-01-2020, 07:28 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This has been mentioned before, but I am not sure if it was in this forum.
On f68r2 there is a moon with a face near the top and a sun with a face near the bottom.
Both have circular texts around them. For the bottom one, there is one word, between 08:00 and 09:00, that does not look like Voynichese writing, but like cleartext. However, it is not all that easy to read.
Who can make anything of this?
EDIT: does it say 'sond' ? Could this be some dialect version of 'Sonne' (German for Sun)?
Here's what I see...
First part:
okey okoaiin okol o ky oeeeo r okey okeeo l c eeo [font=Georgia][font=Georgia](this last one should be joined but not so it looks like ch, rather it looks like long-cee followed by tight-cc) or it might be [/font][/font]aeey or aeeo (the tail might be faded and the "a" is sometimes written without the bottom joined, s[font=Georgia]orry, I can't write half-spaces in this editor) then [/font]a or o and then
Mystery token:
s*na or f[font=Georgia]*na or [/font]s[font=Georgia]*ma[/font], or s[font=Georgia]*ms, [/font]or sinia [font=Georgia]or [/font]fima or some combination of these.
- The first char looks like long-ess or long-eff.
- The second-one indecipherable UNLESS that emphasized dot on the end of the long-ess is actually the dot on an "i".
- Then something that looks like "m" or "n" (can't tell because of the blob) OR if it is an i with a long leading-serif, then it might even be "f*nia" or "s*nia". Note that the 116v text has "i" with a long-leading serif.
- Then double-story "a" or final-ess (final-ess often resembles double-story "a" in some scripts). It's too small to be "d" or the number 8.
I think the folio to the left of this one, with moon on the bottom, has ol 9° 9 on the bottom right, which would usually be a date (e.g., 1404, 9th of 9). Note how the tails of the 9 characters are curled. Some scribes specifically wrote numbers with more of a curled tail to distinguish them from "g" or the "9" abbreviation char.
Edit [addition]: I just realized something else. That second-last letter, if it is a Latin letter, could also be a hump-shaped "r". Many scribes used both kinds of "r".
RE: More cleartext in the MS? - Koen G - 22-01-2020
I would also be inclined to read the preceding "a" as a part of the cleartext. The "a" and our word seem to be written on the same line as it were, in one go.
Like Paris says, you could possibly read it as "a fond"... which reminds of modern French (a fond de...).
What I find very confusing though is the way the first two letters have what looks like descenders from a previous pass. That's fine in the F/S, but weirder in the supposed vowel.
Edit: also, the word before "a" does not contain anything specifically Voynichese. You could read it like.. cria? ciia?
Maybe rather "tua"?
RE: More cleartext in the MS? - Scarecrow - 22-01-2020
Maybe it cloud be just a mistake by the scribe to write a "k"? To me that "F" looks a bit like the loop part of an K, but also a bit like Latin "P". In "P" case I'd read it like "Pons","Pond"..
Some trouble in writing that text to the image scribe has had.
RE: More cleartext in the MS? - -JKP- - 22-01-2020
Capital letters were often not used. A capital P here is less likely than long-ess.
I think the last letter looks more like double-story "a" than final-ess. I've never seen "d" written that small (and it's not quite the right shape).