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+--- Thread: Medieval sirens and mermaids (/thread-2970.html)
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - Koen G - 17-06-2021
Yeah definitely not human. Though I suspect not entirely "fish" either. For example Cantimpre's De Natura Rerum has a separate category for "sea monsters" which include hybrids, versus normal "sea creatures".
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - bi3mw - 17-06-2021
Thanks @Koen for the reference to "De Natura Rerum". I am just looking for the listing in book VI.
Thomas of Cantimpré, De natura rerum, Book VI, "De monstris ac beluis marinis"
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RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - Koen G - 17-06-2021
Cantimpre's "fish" are basically things you might encounter while fishing.
His "marine monsters" though are often hybrids, either animal-fish or human-fish. I think the fish in your illustration are also part of the "monstrous" or legendary category. These may include real animals like whales, but were still considered a category of their own.
But I agree that at least by these popular encyclopedias, mermaids would probably be considered more animal than human.
Here's the siren: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.=
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RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - Aga Tentakulus - 17-06-2021
It is also mentioned in the book where Marco posted.
But I am still not really sure of the true meaning.
[url=http://digital.bib-bvb.de/view/bvbmets/viewer.0.6.4.jsp?folder_id=0&dvs=1623951150028~646&pid=5281832&locale=de&usePid1=true&usePid2=true][/url]
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - R. Sale - 17-06-2021
Good to see new examples and to bring this discussion back to the surface for a gulp of air. The VMs 'mermaid' investigation is one of the few areas where combined efforts have developed a fuller understanding and enhanced interpretation of VMs content and potential sources.
In order to identify a mermaid, one needs a definition. In the Lauber illustrations, a mermaid is included with the 'Sea monsters' and among the 'Fish'. In deed, more similar to an animal than a human, because she is a generic creature, rather than a specific individual.
Something that seems to define the standard representation of a mermaid is that the upper, humanoid portion only goes down to the waist.
And as far as the VMs 'mermaid' being a version of Jonah and the whale, it is clear that Jonah is always a man.
The VMs 'mermaid' violates both of these provisions. The VMs illustration presents a standing, female figure - almost to her knees. This is a creature of some other type. Fortunately, someone knew the myth of Melusine.
How could a medieval artist use a simple drawing to illustrate a transition, such as that of Melusine, from demi-human to fully human and back? One possibility is to represent the process midway - partly in and partly out.
At the time of the Middle Ages designated by the C-14 tests, there were several, current versions of the myth of Melusine. They included the green dragon-lady version of Lusignan and the blue, mermaid-like Melusine of Luxembourg. The VMs version is clearly more like a fish, and it is blue. In either case Melusine was the ancestress of nobility. As part of the Luxembourg descendants, the Valois lines of France must be included, several of which totally overlap the C-14 time span.
What the VMs artist has done was to take the image and the format of the generic mermaid and her companion monsters or fish, and then substitute a particular, individual creature (Melusine of Luxembourg) in place of the generic mermaid. Also changes the companions, but that's another matter.
IMO, this investigation reveals a lot about the nature of the VMs, about the specifics of its content and how that content has been manipulated. It shows the great extent to which earlier investigations have been blocked by the absence of relevant information and the inability to recover data from lost, historical interpretations. With the expanded ability to rediscover these relevant interpretations, this has become an example of progress through collaboration.