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+--- Thread: Medieval sirens and mermaids (/thread-2970.html)
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - R. Sale - 15-10-2019
It seems to me that there are some problems with ambiguity. There are sirens in medieval bestiaries. There are mermaids and mermen. These do not seem to show any part of the upper leg. Then there is Jonah emerging from the whale. Sometimes his leg shows, sometimes not. Then there is the VMs, the figure is potentially emerging. The figure is female and she is not praying. Does the VMs present an altered or hybridized image? Is this a female representation of Jonah? Or does it tie in with some other figure from Classical mythology?
Is the figure in Harley 334 a mermaid or siren? The other illustrations tend to have religious implications. It's obvious that this is not a bestiary. Why was the illustration used in this manuscript?
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - davidjackson - 16-10-2019
The simplest solution is that this is just a separation of animal vs human, showing how a person rises from the basness of animals to become a human.
Read the image as a whole, not just one image. It clearly shows people in different levels of attainment - animals at the bottom up to the big boss at the top.
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - Koen G - 16-10-2019
An interesting way of thinking about the page, David. But would this be compatible with medieval thought at all? (Genuine question, I really don't know). And how are the figures in between intermediate steps?
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - Aga Tentakulus - 16-10-2019
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - Aga Tentakulus - 16-10-2019
To the animals in the VM, here an excerpt from a German medicine book. In the fifth line.
"so also the other natures should be helped. But how to recognize this, that I want, whether my God goes as..."
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - -JKP- - 16-10-2019
(16-10-2019, 07:00 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.An interesting way of thinking about the page, David. But would this be compatible with medieval thought at all? (Genuine question, I really don't know). And how are the figures in between intermediate steps?
The idea of man's dominion over nature was emphasized in the Bible.
There are thousands of images of hierarchies. Hierarchies of angels are particularly common. Most Bible illustrations show God and angels higher up, people lower down, often the animals are at the same level (ground level) or lower, lost souls lower still.
The elements are frequently drawn as hierarchical (with fire at the top).
I'd say the concept of hierarchies (with ideas like "up" and "larger" being distinguished from "lower" and "smaller") were very much a part of medieval illustrations.
Also the idea of ascent (which I suspect might be behind the positioning of some of the figures like the mystery pangolin (Agnus Dei?)) is pretty common in medieval illustrations.
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - Koen G - 16-10-2019
Right, that's all fine. But what David seems to suggest is an ascent from among beasts, which sounds more Darwinian than the Biblical "man rules over beasts and that's the way it is because God made it so". In the VM it's more of an emergence (quite literally) than a fixed dominion.
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - bi3mw - 16-10-2019
(16-10-2019, 06:05 AM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The simplest solution is that this is just a separation of animal vs human, showing how a person rises from the basness of animals to become a human.
Read the image as a whole, not just one image. It clearly shows people in different levels of attainment - animals at the bottom up to the big boss at the top.
Would the sequence of images with the nymphs have to be "read" from bottom to top? The "irrigation" points in the opposite direction.
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - RobGea - 16-10-2019
davidjackson's idea of animals at the bottom up to the big boss at the top is intriguing.
Time for some rampant speculation
1. Top figure : nebuly lines, crucifix --points to Spiritual / Religious, no higher authority kind of thing.
2. Nymph with ring : Ring symbolizes Royalty, Kingship ( possibly angelic?)
3. Normal mortals : Figure is bald, has breasts, is pregnant - -symbolizing, Man,Woman and Child together in one figure.
4. Human like : Mermaid, maybe a centaur would also be in this class.
5. Animals : Well they are animals (why no birds and fish though?)
Reminds me a little of the 'Great chain of being' but thats Christian though derivative.
And a quote from wikipedia Mermaid page.
"I saw Derketo's likeness... a strange marvel. It is woman for half its length; but the other half, from thighs to feet, stretched out in a fish's tail."
Note not from 'waist to feet' but 'thighs to feet', easy to interpret as the Mermaid is showing a bit of thigh.
RE: Medieval sirens and mermaids - davidjackson - 16-10-2019
Sorry Koen, not evolution but mental development - from base living to attaining enlightenment. A perfectly normal Christian way of thinking. Indeed, as abhorrent as it is to us nowadays, Bob Christians were considered by many to be as 'the beasts of the field' because they had not attained the knowledge of God.