+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Imagery (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-43.html)
+--- Thread: Cannons versus Pipes (/thread-2959.html)
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - -JKP- - 07-10-2019
It could be the Nile delta, it could be the 4 rivers running out of Eden, it could be the Tuscan delta, the Po River delta, even the Normandy coast delta.
River deltas are common and many people have suggested the lower-left could be rivers (it has always looked like a river delta to me, but I try to remind myself that it might also be flows of something else, like lava, it doesn't necessarily have to be water).
The branches of the Nile are always changing and were not necessarily the same in number or size in the Middle Ages as they are now (which is also true of most deltas). As the silt is washed down from the river, it builds up and can quite dramatically change over the centuries.
Just based on how the VMS illustrator draws things, I think it is much more likely that the lower-left rotum represents a delta, rather than a cluster of pipes representing a delta. I do think the pipes could represent an aqueduct however (I've posted examples of aqueduct pipes on another thread), and quite a few other things (portable ink tubes were also cylinder shaped in those days, as was the pouch for the quill, so were siting tubes, which look a bit like telescopes, but lack the lens, but I like the idea of organ pipes as they were long and similar in shape to the VMS pipes and were grouped in regular ways and the VMS grouping has a larger one in the center).
Paris had a lot of chimneys in the middle ages (as did most large cities), forests of chimneys. I sometimes wondered if the VMS "pipes" were inspired by chimney pipes.
I also posted an illustration of steam vents quite a while ago. They were inserted into the ground in thermally active areas to let out steam and they were just basically pipes.
I really don't think cannons are likely. The VMS seems to lean away from warfare rather than toward it.
Horns maybe (the celestial-message kind). Note that some of them are coming out of a cloudband.
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Monica Yokubinas - 07-10-2019
Human pipes the inside of an umbilical cord.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. see bottom red circled.
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Davidsch - 08-10-2019
And why does the Rosette need to be something tangible?
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - bi3mw - 08-10-2019
@Davidsch: Because there is already a tangible thing displayed, namely a castle. This is something concrete that provides a clue to further assumptions. These are of course very speculative so far, but not so abstract that they could not make sense.
edit: I especially like this concrete presentation:
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - -JKP- - 08-10-2019
LOL! I particularly don't like that representation, but I guess I'd better keep my mouth shut
until I can find time to do a better one (I've been wanting to create a 3D image of the rosette folio since I first saw it in 2006 or 2007 and I STILL can't find time).
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - RenegadeHealer - 08-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 01:07 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Human pipes the inside of an umbilical cord.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. see bottom red circled.
The umbilical cord contains 3 blood vessels, and one cord-like remnant of an embryonic structure called the allantois. The cross section of the umbilical cord only looks like the picture you circled (containing two loops of what eventually becomes the gut tract) for a very short time early on in the embryo's development. The vast majority of cut umbilical cords someone in the middle ages would have seen, whether on a live baby or an early aborted fetus, would have appeared to have only three "pipes" inside.
That said, I do appreciate your consideration of embryology and the workings of the human body in general as a possible theme in the VMS, whether overt or hidden. It would just take quite a bit more than this to prove it.
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Monica Yokubinas - 08-10-2019
(08-10-2019, 02:31 PM)RenegadeHealer Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(07-10-2019, 01:07 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Human pipes the inside of an umbilical cord.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. see bottom red circled.
The umbilical cord contains 3 blood vessels, and one cord-like remnant of an embryonic structure called the allantois. The cross section of the umbilical cord only looks like the picture you circled (containing two loops of what eventually becomes the gut tract) for a very short time early on in the embryo's development. The vast majority of cut umbilical cords someone in the middle ages would have seen, whether on a live baby or an early aborted fetus, would have appeared to have only three "pipes" inside.
That said, I do appreciate your consideration of embryology and the workings of the human body in general as a possible theme in the VMS, whether overt or hidden. It would just take quite a bit more than this to prove it.
Which is why that later depiction is in the upper section at the far corner of the castle. The 9 rosette folio talks of relieving the poor/needy woman of her unwanted fetus. Where i put "skin" also means hide/leather. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - -JKP- - 10-10-2019
Sometimes pipes were cannons (projectiles weren't always incendiary, sometimes pipes were used to eject water, oil, bits of toxic rotting carcasses...).
I thought this drawing was interesting in the same manuscript Marco linked on the "tents" thread. I recognize the illustrator. He's done quite a lot of illustrations in another manuscript, in exactly the same style. I will have to try to find it:
Aarau ZF 18
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Koen G - 10-10-2019
It's worth adding that this is from 1514-1532. Certainly, some early 16th century imagery retained medieval stylistic elements, but this is not one of them in my opinion. I don't think it can be relied upon to inform us about the possible intentions of the VM "pipes".
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - -JKP- - 10-10-2019
From c. 1411 (Wein Codex MS 3069)
![[Image: WienCodexMX3069_1_r.png]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/WienCodexMX3069_1_r.png)
Bellifortis, c. 1405:
![[Image: Lgehumble_1400.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Lgehumble_1400.jpg)
One that's similar:
France, c. 1390s (from PHGCOM, Wikipedia):
![[Image: 1920px-HandBombardWesternEurope1390-1400.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/HandBombardWesternEurope1390-1400.jpg/1920px-HandBombardWesternEurope1390-1400.jpg)
Edit [addition, I forgot the image credit for this one]: ca. 1390s coulevrine from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.