f35r - Printable Version +- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja) +-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html) +--- Forum: Imagery (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-43.html) +--- Thread: f35r (/thread-2901.html)

f35r - Koen G - 18-08-2019 I haven't found much about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. on the forum, even though it is a remarkable plant. More so than others, it appears manipulated to match some desired shape, in this case a gold chalice. I've seen it being likened to a chalice before, but I think it's possible to analyze its various parts in a relatively coherent manner.     At the top we can see the green of the leaves, but the outside has been painted an even golden brown. There are also somewhat regular circular marks under the paint, but I can't quite make them out.     The stem and roots are streaked with red, which in my opinion links it to the golden chalice that caught the blood of Christ after the crucifixion. Comparison image from Wroclaw, 1443.     This leaves the problem of the strangely curved blue petioles (?) around the flower (?). One might just say "it's round so it's a host, which was also present at the last supper" but I think it's something else. I realized this after seeing this image bi3mw posted earlier: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.     The petioles form a "cloud" around the streaks and drops of red. The meaning seems clear: Holy Blood. If the meaning of "blue=sky" is regularly employed, it might explain why such a disproportionate percentage of VM flowers (high on plant) are blue. RE: f35r - Anton - 18-08-2019 No it's definitely not the typical cloudband pattern. RE: f35r - Koen G - 18-08-2019 Aaah you are right Anton. I was about to complain "but some of the VM cloud bands bend over on top, looking more like waves". And then it hit me. Look at those things, and the blue lines underneath running towards the cup. It's gushing water. John 19:32-34 includes details not recorded in the other three Gospels: “But coming to Jesus, when they saw that He had already died, they did not break His legs; but one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water.” This "blood and water" line is a big deal in Christian tradition. If I recall correctly it's even why wine for mass is mixed with water. So the circle on top is that side wound again, and blood and water are coming out and running into the cup. RE: f35r - -JKP- - 18-08-2019 The moment you said "chalice" when you introduced the Arma Christi idea, I thought of this plant and the "feet" immediately struck me as possibly representing the flow of blood, not just blood, but the way it is drawn, I get a sense of flowing blood. And there's that mandorla shape again at the top. I really think there's a possibility you have something, Koen. Each one of the "oddities" is in sync with parts of the plant that are not quite naturalistic. RE: f35r - -JKP- - 18-08-2019 A couple of years ago (maybe longer) I was reading about some of the eastern European textile traditions, especially embroidery, and the women of one region were saying, Every shape has a meaning, every pattern has a meaning, these are not just patterns, they are symbols with stories, they are very old. They looked like ordinary embroidery patterns to me, but she started explaining the meaning of individual symbols and I began to understand. I didn't have time to read all of it, but the concept stuck with me. They see these things differently from "outsiders" who don't know the history of the shapes. RE: f35r - Koen G - 18-08-2019 Yeah exactly. Think of traffic signs, a white triangle with a red border. It would mean nothing 200 years ago, but to us its meaning is quite powerful  and immediate. I missed the essence of the top part in my first post. It's really about blood and water. If the mandorla is the wound, you can almost feel the water splashing over its edge and about to fall into the cup. It's a fantastic drawing once everything clicks. RE: f35r - -JKP- - 18-08-2019 So then I was thinking last night... imagine someone  young, raised on Catholic tradition, which was heavily saturated with Arma Christi imagery in the 14th and 15th centuries, especially since they were talismanic and carried with people. Now, as you grow up, you learn about plants, maybe Dad is a gardener or an apothecary or doctor. I was in my yard today and I pulled out a sonchus leaf that looked exactly like a dagger and hilt and because we have been talking about Arma Christi imagery, it immediately came to mind as a parallel. Perhaps the person who did the drawings (or at least conceived the drawings) was raised in a way something like that. RE: f35r - Linda - 19-08-2019 Bloodroot fits really well, although it is North American. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Same number of petals, i often think blue stands for white in some of the flower pics.  Single clasped leaf which forms a chalice, cutlobed as described, the front 'cuts' in the green colour on the vms pic look just like the leaves themselves, the back cuts look like a single lobe of the leaves.  The outer leaf colour is less green than the inner face.  Grows on floodplains.  The plant and especially the rhizomous roots bleed red. The red color of the stem is correct. RE: f35r - -JKP- - 19-08-2019 It looks superficially like medieval drawings of Alkanna (bugloss), but only the overall shape is similar, the details are quite different. Alkanna is drawn with bowl-shaped leaves, but the tops are normal pointed leaf shapes. The flowers are branched, with many small flowers, not singular like the VMS, and not shaped like the VMS flower, the roots are normal, similar to buttercup, not bulbouss, striated, and red.