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+--- Thread: [split] f6r plant (/thread-2805.html)
RE: [split] f6r plant - -JKP- - 21-07-2020
Renegade, I don't want to belabor this too much (because there was already a thread on it and my alternate suggestion did not go down very well).... poppy seems to be the majority ID for this plant, but poppy is not the only plant that has a capsule. It's simply the most familiar one that has a capsule.
And I hate being the bad guy and always bringing this up but...
Dreamstime is a Stock Photo site. They earn their income selling stock images and their contributors (the artists and photographers who create them) get a percentage.
They do not permit people to repost their images unless they have paid the stock photo fee. They allow people to download them to preview on their own computers (layout specialists and designers need the previews to see if they will work in their design). They allow the person who drew the image to post a thumbnail to promote their stock images... but reposting the preview is copyright infringement.
Nothing personal, I am happy in numerous ways that you are on the forum... but sometimes these things need to be said so we show respect for other people's intellectual property (and hopefully they will respect ours).
RE: [split] f6r plant - Koen G - 21-07-2020
I don't know about medieval rope customs, all I know about making ropes I learned from googling just now
For the plant that is subject of this thread, it would be interesting to know if the four ply was used at all in the Middle Ages. Nowadays most reenactors seem to use three ply, but that might just be for practical reasons. It looks like when the separator is shaped like a cross, it's four ply.The cat o' nine tails would be a cat o' thirteen tails in the VM though.
RE: [split] f6r plant - -JKP- - 21-07-2020
Everything was handmade in the Middle Ages. They were master craftsman.
Seafaring was completely manual, no motors, only oars and sails, many sails. The same with hauling, and pulleys... no motors, all ropes and wood and hand-hewn stakes. And the design of fishing nets... all hand tied...
Fabric arts (weaving, embroidery, etc.) were also highly advanced.
I don't have time to look it up right now, but my hunch is that rope tying in the Middle Ages was probably quite skilled.
RE: [split] f6r plant - RenegadeHealer - 22-07-2020
(21-07-2020, 11:03 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.but reposting the preview is copyright infringement.
Fair point. Changing it for one that's free for non-commercial reuse without modification, at least per Google images.
RE: [split] f6r plant - Pardis Motiee - 24-03-2021
f6r is more likely to be Thaumatophyllum bipinnatifidum. If you look at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and even You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there we have some significant similarities.
RE: [split] f6r plant - -JKP- - 24-03-2021
(24-03-2021, 07:50 AM)Pardis Motiee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
f6r is more likely to be Thaumatophyllum bipinnatifidum. If you look at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and even You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there we have some significant similarities.
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Thaumatophyllum bipinnatifidum is native to South America (I also include American plants in my IDs, but I usually give them lower priority than Old World plants).[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I have several possible IDs for f6r, but my two favorite IDs are[/font]
- Reseda (wild mignonette), which has ruffled, pinnate leaves, and wiggly, open-ended seedpods just like the VMS drawing (when they are fully ripe). You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
- I also think moss is a possibility (the ones with branching spore stalks, rather than single ones). Rough, damp leaves and oval seedpods with a circular lighter spot at the ends You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: [split] f6r plant - Pardis Motiee - 24-03-2021
I am more hesitant about Reseda and Moss. For many reasons. I don't see flower shape similarity, the main characteristic for plant identification. Also the leaves are not convincing. But all are in my opinion. Are there any moss drawings in medieval so we may compare the figures?
I think the flower in the drawing is in a leaf-shape cover,specially we can see it is green colored, same/similar to spathe which we see in Thaumatophyllum bipinnatifidum. But I question one part, The flower position ,could it be artistic preference or any other similar species? I don't know, since I haven't mined this text yet.
(I won't restrict myself to New/Old world. why? because the timeline questions the concept of whether it was written by explorers or not.)
RE: [split] f6r plant - -JKP- - 24-03-2021
I don't think those are flowers. They are seed pods.
RE: [split] f6r plant - Pardis Motiee - 25-03-2021
Seed pods have openings when they are ripe. you can see a side opening in green-colored cover, which is a contrast. Green seed pods are not ripe. unless you find an exception.
About moss, I am aware they don't have flower and none of the real parts. But If they do have similarity, then we must answer, what is the size of the mentioned moss' capsule, leaf, and rhizoid? Was the person using lens or had a sharp eye? I shouldn't challenge more. who knows the unknown.
RE: [split] f6r plant - -JKP- - 25-03-2021
This is the link I posted in my previous post: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
They are Reseda seed pods. They are green, they are wiggly, they have "mouths" at the ends. Reseda also has ruffled finger-like leaves.
(25-03-2021, 08:19 AM)Pardis Motiee Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
About moss, I am aware they don't have flower and none of the real parts. But If they do have similarity, then we must answer, what is the size of the mentioned moss' capsule, leaf, and rhizoid? Was the person using lens or had a sharp eye? I shouldn't challenge more. who knows the unknown.
We know they had a sharp eye (either naturally or with spectacles) because the VMS is very small (about the size of a trade paperback) and many folios have tiny details (like patterns on the rosettes page and significant details in the roots of the plant most people call the "water lily").
Reading tubes, reading lenses, and spectacles have been around since at least the 13th century (I have blogged about some of the early examples). There are 14th-century frescoes, and drawings in manuscripts, of people wearing glasses.