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+--- Thread: M. Yokubinas translation (/thread-2761.html)
RE: M. Yokubinas translation - MarcoP - 05-01-2020
Hi Monica,
thank you for the list of words! Could you please add your translation?
I could consider checking the repeatability of the whole process more in-depth.
Congratulations for the 85% rate that JKP awarded you! It's rare to see people so enthusiastic of the translations by another Voynich researcher.
RE: M. Yokubinas translation - Monica Yokubinas - 05-01-2020
"Broken hearted fair weaver, to breach a promise secret. To betray, sprinkle this emissions to cover. Fair then to shine forth, secret like pure to sweep premature baby. Beautiful encounter then, form premature baby. Like Lord premature baby, unite rest companion wailing mother. My own /\ *alchemical symbol for 'Lodestone' forever secret."
Same words.
RE: M. Yokubinas translation - Koen G - 05-01-2020
What does that mean? Repeatability is one thing, but what if the output is ungrammatical pseudotext either way?
RE: M. Yokubinas translation - Monica Yokubinas - 05-01-2020
I had just started working on this page, so I'll give some quick info first. A weaver is someone who creates. A few of the words can have various meanings like:
Kah – broken hearted / Kh – you, thine, thou
Yp – fair
Arg – weaver (someone who creates something)
Ypr – to breach a promise (the action of breaking a sworn assurance to do something)
Rz – secret
Rmh – to betray / cast / lofty shrine / worm
Az - then/at that time
So let's rewrite it from it's current VSO order, so the subject is first:
To breach a promise secret, thou fair weaver, the worm(umbilical cord) sprinkle these emissions to cover fair than shine forth. A secret like pure to sweep the new born baby. Form of the new born baby, a beautiful encounter at that time, like God's new born baby. I then rest. mother Ruth/companion whimpering. My own /\ (lodestone) forever secret.
Worm terminology was used on page 35r, for the umbilical cord and it's uses.
Lodestone were used in magic as scrying devises among other rites of magic.
The page gives a recipe that is forbidden in the plant names.
3rd line of plants down the first plant translates to "this man" correlates to page 87r and could be the term used for Mandragora.
Hope this helps, still working on this page.
RE: M. Yokubinas translation - MarcoP - 05-01-2020
(05-01-2020, 07:50 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So let's rewrite it from it's current VSO order, so the subject is first:
Without entering into the details of all the arbitrariness in the other steps, I don't understand this VSO-thing. What you call "words" mostly are two characters long strings. You write that "A few of the words can have various meanings", but the truth is that most (all?) these strings correspond to several words that can have similar or very different meanings.
You gave an example of how the first string in your list corresponds to two totally different words belonging to different parts of speech (I am ignorant, and I could not identify any of these two words):
Kah – broken hearted / Kh – you, thine, thou
This is true also for the second string "yp" which can be for example:
- an adjective: Strong 3303 yapheh (fair) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
- a noun: Strong 3308 yophi (beauty) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
- the name of a city: Strong 3305 Yapho You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Similarly, the third string 'arg' can be (for instance) the noun "weaver" or the verb "to weave" (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.); or the verbal form You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (I will kill).
And so on.
So, what is the relevance of the VSO order when we are clueless about the part of speech represented by each string?
RE: M. Yokubinas translation - Monica Yokubinas - 05-01-2020
VSO order is Verb, Subject, Object order of speech.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. languages include You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. "Loves she him.
Hence to someone not speaking the language it comes out "garbled".
kah You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Pronounced KA A (a verb) Broken hearted, Grieved, made sad
K [font=sans-serif] Part of Strongs Biblical Concordance #3509.1 Pronounced Ke, is a substantive, prefix. Like, a marker of comparison[/font]
K Part of Strongs Biblical Concordance #3509.2 Pronounced {Ka, aK} end of word, {Keh} beginning of word, is a Pronoun, masculine, singular, suffix. you, your, thine, thine own...
K [font=sans-serif] Part of Strongs Biblical Concordance #3509.3 Pronounced K or Ki is a Prefix, feminine, singular, suffix . You your, thee thine...[/font]
[font=sans-serif]K [font=sans-serif] Part of Strongs Biblical Concordance #3509.4 Pronounced Ke is a preposition, prefix. As, like, according too...[/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]K [font=sans-serif] Part of Strongs Biblical Concordance #3509.5 Pronounced K is a prefis, suffix, second person, masculin, singular. you, your, thine...[/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]yf in Voynich, yp (with a soft p in Hebrew) ALL yp words including Joppa mean Beautiful, handsome, fair.[/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]Arg is a noun for weaver, a person who creates. The other words are not an option based on sound added to the original 3 letters.[/font][/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]your ARAG has an extra A sound and EHEROG has many added sounds.[/font][/font][/font]
RE: M. Yokubinas translation - MarcoP - 05-01-2020
Thank you for clarifying Kah / K!
(05-01-2020, 10:40 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.yf in Voynich, yp (with a soft p in Hebrew) ALL yp words including Joppa mean Beautiful, handsome, fair.
You seem to imply that all yp words are adjectives.
Isn't You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (beauty) both a noun and a yp word?
By the way, the fact that you now speak of yp-words as a class of words, rather than "a word", is a significant step forward.
(05-01-2020, 10:40 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Arg is a noun for weaver, a person who creates. The other words are not an option based on sound added to the original 3 letters.
your ARAG has an extra A sound and EHEROG has many added sounds.
So what?
I don't know what the yp word for "fair" you mean is: you didn't specify it.
If it is yapheh as I think, it also has sounds added to yp:
Strong 3303 yapheh (fair) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: M. Yokubinas translation - Monica Yokubinas - 06-01-2020
yp words are all translated as fair, beauty, etc... There are no words in Hebrew that translate different with the yp format.
when added to an You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.word Yph is the most used in the Voynich.
Just because you do not understand something, does not make it incorrect.
All Hebrew words have meaning, EACH letter, to CREATE a word with meaning. If you cannot understand this concept, this is why you have not been able to understand the Voynich Manuscript.
as you say "so what" and i will say "cast not thy pearls before swine"
RE: M. Yokubinas translation - MarcoP - 06-01-2020
Thank you for the Gospel quote, Monica! I tend to agree with that approach, but here I am accused of being unfair, so I will swine some more. Please be assured that it is as frustrating for me as it is for you.
Anyway, I feel we are slowly making progress. Your mention of VSO can help us shade some light of how you You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Sometimes I play around with medieval manuscripts and I know that adding punctuation requires a clear understanding of the underlying grammar.
(06-01-2020, 02:25 AM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.yp words are all translated as fair, beauty, etc...
For your translation, you choose "fair" (an adjective) over "beauty" (a noun). In order to carry on your VSO grammatical analysis you must know, for each of your two-three characters strings, if it stands for an adjective, a verb, a noun etc. Things would be clearer if you provided Strong's number for each actual word you select.
For instance, what is Strong's number for the word you associate with 'yp' (fair) in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.?
I mentioned You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but of course it might not be what you picked.
Another thing that might help is an exhaustive list of all yp-words. Do you have a link for that?
RE: M. Yokubinas translation - Monica Yokubinas - 06-01-2020
Fair - Noun - as in a beautiful lady or Fair one in the link you have of strongs 3303.
Yes I left the H off. of YPH pronounced Ya feh. typo on my part.
Missing H from most of the yf (fair) or ypy (beauty) or ypyf (beautiful) Voynich words as the writing is phonetic and in a defective Hebrew form.
Look how it is used in Song of Songs You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. spelt YPTHI with a current Hebrew spelling of YPTHH in the Oxford Dictionary , yet the Strong's Concordance will link to the word of YPH as in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. yet the root word is YPH pronounced Ya fa You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. without the added H sound.
You can easily scroll on the Strongs link for more definitions and words by hitting the "Next Strong's" key or "Previous Strong's" ket to go back.
I personally have books:
A Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
An Oxford Hebrew to English Dictionary
Aramaic Incantation Texts from Nippur (multiple defective spellings from different dialects like Rabbinic, Syriac and Mandaic)
Also Jewish Magic and Superstition
I only use online links when explaining.