(03-05-2019, 10:15 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Whether EVA-y does double duty or not, WHERE is the "g" sound in the middles of words? I didn't really get an answer to that. Gimel or "g" is common in Hebrew and pretty much every language.

There has to be something to represent "g" within words if this is believed to be natural language (which I think is what Monica intends).

(03-05-2019, 10:52 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(03-05-2019, 10:15 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Whether EVA-y does double duty or not, WHERE is the "g" sound in the middles of words? I didn't really get an answer to that. Gimel or "g" is common in Hebrew and pretty much every language.

There has to be something to represent "g" within words if this is believed to be natural language (which I think is what Monica intends).

Beginning of a short word page 37r, line 4, word inside the plant 'gr' = inhabit. Page 4r, line 1, last word 'Chgrg' Chg = solemn feast + rg = rest.  Page 43r, line 5 first word: 'ghan' Gh = to cure + an = how long. Page 22r, line 3, second word 'rghssh' rgsw = insurrection. If you need any more examples of placement just let me know. Hope this helps.

(03-05-2019, 10:27 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quote:Monica: "...like being able to eat the tuber/sweet potato of the bladder campion on 33r not just the leaves as a winter pot herb."

I have my own ideas about what You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. might represent, but most people seem to think it's papaver (poppy) and not bladder campion.

The top of the VMS stalk does not look like a bladder, it looks like a seed capsule. Those are not petals, they are the rosette at the top of a seed capsule. Bladder campion has five sets of split petals, not at all like the VMS drawing.

The roots of bladder campion are usually like a nest of thin tap roots. They're a bit like buttercup roots. Occasionally they are like a slightly thicker dandelion root, but those are mostly the North American varieties, not the European ones. European species usually have thinner and more numerous roots. You wouldn't really call them tubers.

Here is a pic of the European version:




Also note how the leaves are in PAIRS, at intervals up the stalk, not at all like the VMS leaves in shape, size, or distribution.

Also, the roots are not usually eaten. The leaves and shoots are eaten. The roots are usually used for soap (the saponins in the roots are good for cleaning but are bitter and mildly toxic if eaten).

(03-05-2019, 10:56 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(03-05-2019, 10:52 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(03-05-2019, 10:15 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Whether EVA-y does double duty or not, WHERE is the "g" sound in the middles of words? I didn't really get an answer to that. Gimel or "g" is common in Hebrew and pretty much every language.

There has to be something to represent "g" within words if this is believed to be natural language (which I think is what Monica intends).

Beginning of a short word page 37r, line 4, word inside the plant 'gr' = inhabit. Page 4r, line 1, last word 'Chgrg' Chg = solemn feast + rg = rest.  Page 43r, line 5 first word: 'ghan' Gh = to cure + an = how long. Page 22r, line 3, second word 'rghssh' rgsw = insurrection. If you need any more examples of placement just let me know. Hope this helps.

Yes, I need more examples, "g" should occur within words at least a couple of times PER SENTENCE (I'm assuming a VMS "sentence" could be as long as two or three lines, as it often is in natural languages). Surely you don't think one letter "g" within a word for every 10 pages is normal for natural language?

By the way, in Hebrew, gimel often occurs at the beginnings and ends of words as well, so it would also be wise to explain how your double-duty instances of gimel (as the concept "or" or as the letter "g") would be recognized as one or the other in Voynichese.

(03-05-2019, 11:37 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are asking me to explain one letter and its usage in the Voynich when I'm still trying to understand 3 other blends from one glyph while working on page 37r. try the letter exchange for yourself, on any Voynich word and see if it works for you.

(03-05-2019, 11:43 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(03-05-2019, 11:37 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are asking me to explain one letter and its usage in the Voynich when I'm still trying to understand 3 other blends from one glyph while working on page 37r. try the letter exchange for yourself, on any Voynich word and see if it works for you.

Yes, I am asking you to explain one letter and its usage because if THIS particular letter doesn't show up in the manuscript as one would expect it to, regargless of the language, then there is something wrong with the method.

The letter g is frequent in MOST western and middle eastern languages, so you can't just look past it, you have to deal with it.


Wouldn't it be better to find if there are flaws in the method and CORRECT them rather than going on and on for months or years mis-translating it?

(03-05-2019, 11:08 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The VMS plants are quite carefully drawn. The ones that are recognizable are pretty accurate as to leaf arrangement, leaf margins, etc. There are some that are stylized and some that appear to be mnemonic, but the naturalistic ones aren't as bad as some people think.

If you got the plant ID from Sherwood's site, you should know that about 60% of Sherwood's IDs are questionable, some are highly questionable, and there's one that shows unequivocably that she is not familiar with plants.



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Your claim that eating bladder campion roots is "lost knowledge" is not scientifically supported. It sounds like a way to justify a very questionable plant ID.

Why don't you show a translation of the parts of Voynichese that say that and you might convince us.

Already sent you the link, didn't you look at the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. research database list

(04-05-2019, 12:23 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's a broken link (I'll try it again later) and it isn't "lost knowledge" or any kind of knowledge if your plant ID is wrong. I think there's very little chance this plant is bladder campion. There's another VMS plant that resembles Silene far better than this one.