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philosophical question about Voynich research - geoffreycaveney - 23-03-2019
This is a general, philosophical question. It is about Voynich ms research, about all of our research, about all of us, including myself.
Could it be possible that, in some way or in some respect, some of us actually prefer that the Voynich MS remain undeciphered?
This mysterious manuscript is just so much FUN to study! We can all make up our own theories about languages, we can do interesting linguistic and statistical studies on the ms text, we can propose fascinating theories about the possible meanings of the illustrations, etc., etc., etc. It is a fertile ground for our imagination, and for our intellectual inclination to analyze the text, for those of us who are mathematically inclined.
But if the Voynich MS ever were to be successfully deciphered, whether by me or someone else here or someone else anywhere or whomever, ... we would lose all of that. The mystery would be gone. There would be no more puzzle left to analyze and speculate about and research. It would be just another historical document.
Oh, it would still be researched, in detail, for sure. But that work would then be the province of the specialists in whichever language/dialect and in whichever historical specialization the MS happens to belong to. If it's Byzantine Greek or Judaeo-Greek, it would be the specialists in those fields who would study it. If it's a unique method of medieval Latin manuscript abbreviations, it would be the specialists in that field who would study it.
Linear B can still be studied, by those who specialize in Archaic and Mycenaean Greek, in Mycenaean and Minoan civilization, and in the linguistics of the distinct type of syllabary that the script represented. But it can no longer be studied by a broad spectrum of talented and curious intellectuals without those specialized skills, as it was in the 1920's and 30's and 40's in many very interesting and fascinating ways by a wide variety of investigators. I bet many people were actually disappointed when Michael Ventris successfully deciphered Linear B. He had taken their puzzle game away from them.
I don't think many people will admit to feeling this way. But I think it is a philosophical question that is worth asking and worth reflecting on.
Geoffrey
RE: philosophical question about Voynich research - -JKP- - 23-03-2019
I have often thought to myself, "If I figure this out, should I say anything? Would it spoil all the fun?"
RE: philosophical question about Voynich research - geoffreycaveney - 23-03-2019
(23-03-2019, 05:18 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have often thought to myself, "If I figure this out, should I say anything? Would it spoil all the fun?"
Well if you do, JKP, at least give us all until the following weekend to have a chance to figure it out for ourselves
RE: philosophical question about Voynich research - Linda - 23-03-2019
Sometimes i think the text has no meaning per se, but the visual references, including not just the imagery, but the glyphs and their patterns, mean everything because of the correlations we make with everything in history in order to understand it. I for one would not have learned or seen so much of what i have come across without the vms having sent me there to go have a look.
But i really would like to see more concordance, it is like the frustrations of aligning general relativity with quantum field theory. How many dimensions are there?
You may be right, depending on what it turns out to be, it could be pretty disappointing. It reminds me of story about a magician, who wouldnt tell how he did a trick, because the wonder would be lost. I figured out the trick, and yes the wonder is subdued, but you gain understanding, perspective, and maybe some skeptism toward the next wonder that pops up, but that just leads to quicker understanding of that next wonder. I prefer the understanding, i can still shift my perspective to see the wonder, especially when guided to, that is what a magician does. Whereas if i dont understand, i dont know which way to shift towards doing so, and that state to me is less comfortable than knowing.
That being said, if it turns out that my interpretations are proven completely wrong, i would still wonder about how they seemed to fit so well. How did this manuscript make me my own magician? Because the understanding that i have gained regarding the references i currently believe to be portrayed will still be there, the commonalities will still align, even if the references prove not to exist. So it is kind of magical, either way. I think i would rather know which way, so that i can know which dimensions fold into each other, and thereby gain further understanding of it all.
RE: philosophical question about Voynich research - Emma May Smith - 23-03-2019
(23-03-2019, 05:18 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have often thought to myself, "If I figure this out, should I say anything? Would it spoil all the fun?"
I also thought that, were I lucky enough to be the person to decipher it, I would want to apologise for making the world a little less mysterious and special.
RE: philosophical question about Voynich research - Antonio García Jiménez - 23-03-2019
I see in another way this philosophical question as Geoffreycaveney says. For me it is a challenge to convince you that the VMS truly is a deeper mystery than you think. If it were some kind of language o cipher or if it were meaningless, yes it would be a mystery but much less than if it is what I think: a magical code made to attract the virtues of stars to herbs. Solving the enigma is for me to better understand the mentality of an era and to enjoy of the human spirit.
And talking about philosophy, I want to quote the expression 'Ignoramus et ignorabimus' by Emil du Bois-Reymond. We don't know things that sooner or later we will know, like the meaning of the VMS, a human product, but there are things that we will never know like the the true mysteries of life.
RE: philosophical question about Voynich research - ReneZ - 24-03-2019
There is more to the mystery of the Voynich MS than "what the text says".
Let's just suppose for a moment that it contains several standard texts, e.g. from Aristotle and some early herbal texts.
Does that then solve everything?
I would say: hardly. Because we still don't know why this was done, and we may not know who did it, where and when?
What was the motivation? Were there more such works?
If it turns out to be an otherwise unknown classical text, it will trigger some serious research.
If it turns out to be some sort of a treasure map, it will trigger something very different
If it includes new historic evidence related to people or events (not excluding gossip) it will trigger more serious research.
I could go on for quite a while with all sorts of more or less unlikely scenarios.
If it turns out to overlap with the work of Paracelsus (as Singer seems to have thought), does it mean that Paracelsus was heavily influenced by it? Could he read it?
RE: philosophical question about Voynich research - Helmut Winkler - 24-03-2019
i think it would bring many fine things in every sense of the word for the person who finds the solution , but i am sure i would publish it even if it were only for the sake of science
RE: philosophical question about Voynich research - VViews - 24-03-2019
Haha, yes, I'll admit I'd miss playing if the Voynich game was over.
I've wondered about something ReneZ hints at: if someone were to solve it and to discover a treasure map or some other valuable secret, like the elixir of youth or how to weaponize common garden plants, perhaps they might not want to share it!
RE: philosophical question about Voynich research - Koen G - 24-03-2019
I'm pretty straightforward about this: I want to know the answer, whether I'm the one to find it or not. The chase is good, but I'm in it for the catch.
Let's say that usually my frustration that the mystery remains far outweighs my fun with problem solving. I want to see this thing understood, as soon as possible.
Apart from that, there is wisdom in Rene's words. It won't stop with understanding the code. Do you guys honestly believe someone will discover a "formula" and then we'll all say "ah, it's solved now" and call it a day?
Let's say we figure out how to read it. It will take years to translate it, believe me. This is not some modern internet puzzle, it's a (probably very messy) 600 year old document. If I were to present to you a 200-page manuscript in plain Latin with a thus far unknown text, how long would it take you to transcribe and translate the thing? Some people build their academic career on the study of a single text.
And then, after all the hard work has been done to transcribe and translate the thing, how does it connect to the rest of medieval literature and knowledge? And why was it presented the way it was?
No, as far as I am concerned, the fun will only start after we crack it.