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F79r as Mesopotamia - Printable Version

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F79r as Mesopotamia - Linda - 06-02-2019

[Image: Mesopotamia.jpg]

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. shows the Euphrates and Tigris rivers, and explains how the silting of the Persian Gulf has caused the features that exist today. It also tells us there existed a river civilisation that has been lost to rising water levels.

[Image: 1.jpg]

Rivers are shown as tubes. The wolkenbands are coming from a hole, the Euphrates arises. The blue tells me this is fresh water, mountain runoff and/or springs. The scalloped bits at the start of the river tells me the rivers cut through rock. There are hot springs involved, as indicated by the red band around the river tube. 

[Image: Simplified-neotectonic-map-of-Turkey-EAF...tolian.png]
Neotectonic map of Turkey shows the faults in the area of the rising of the Euphrates. Numerous hot springs are noted near the Armenia Turkey border. The Euphrates rises near Mount Ararat, a dormant volcano. 

[Image: capella.jpg]

Next we see a mountain which is feeding both the Euphrates and various streams which eventually become the Tigris river, denoted by the new tube. The Tigris rises near the southern Taurus mountains. Note that true to life, it starts south of the Euphrates, to the eastern side of it, north is up on this page. There are then two tubes. That they are side by side and short is an obfuscation, Mesopotamia means land between the rivers, but then no land is drawn in the quire, it is only the water. The two then come together as one, which is the case in reality as well, the Shaṭṭ Al-ʿArab is a 200km silty river fed by both that flows into the Persian Gulf.

[Image: 1231610-kuwait-city-locator-map.jpg]
The other parts are a deconstruction of northern part of the Persian Gulf as caused by the river silt. Note the curvy shaped bays and the double bump in the middle.

[Image: 4.jpg]
Symmetrical curvey bays. They are upside down but the circles, or ports, are the parts attached to the gulf, so once you attach them in your mind to the top of the gulf, they will be correctly oriented. The greenishness of the water means it is brackish, caused by backflow currents of sea water into these areas. 

[Image: 6.jpg]
The silt and the currents splitting off created the double bump that occurs where modern day Iran and Iraq meet at the top of the Persian Gulf.

Deconstructing the process also obfuscates the diagram, it is not so much a direct visual than a string of visuals which must be reconstructed in one's thoughts in order to see the whole. 

[Image: 8.jpg]

The tube in the gulf is showing ancient knowledge that the gulf was not always there in the configuration we now know (or knew in the 15th century), that the river continued southward, but rising water levels swallowed it up. Given that the oldest known civilizations started in this general area, such knowledge being retained would not be beyond the realm of possibility.

[Image: 979.jpg]
It need only be between stage 3 and 4 that we are talking about, the Sumerians were there around the end of stage 4. 

[Image: all.jpg?w=155&h=602]

[Image: 220px-Tigr-euph.png]

What do you think? Can you see what i see? It is more like reading the individual images as a story than looking at a picture, but it is all there.

RE: F79r as Mesopotamia - -JKP- - 06-02-2019

It's hard to say. There are so many bodies of waters that connect in so many different ways, basic shapes could be matched to many of them.

RE: F79r as Mesopotamia - Koen G - 06-02-2019

The ultimate meaning of these images could be something along those lines. But then it would certainly be an itinerary linked to information about the stars, as Diane believes. But I agree with JKP it's hard to say, with so many possibilities.

I should learn more about the ways stars were linked to locations historically, but it's not the most accessible subject. On this page the central nymphs (holding arms) can be understood quite readily as Gemini.

RE: F79r as Mesopotamia - -JKP- - 07-02-2019

Years ago, I was looking into the possibility that the text might be maps...

[Image: VMSStegMap.png]

This isn't one of my original "maps", I did this just now to provide a simple example, but it turns out to be almost as intractable a problem as trying to figure out the text from a linguistic point of view...

The difficulty with interpreting the text as imagery is there are SO many possible interpretations and combinations... could something be represented by one glyph, two glyphs, three glyphs, four glyphs? Or are the spaces and half-spaces significant (do they represent boundaries?)? I ended up with so many different ways to approach it, I had to let it go for a while so I could think about whether there were any clues as to how it might be orchestrated.

There are a lot of odd spacings in the text, and places where it looks like the text may have been laid down in more than one pass and so often where that happens, I could see diagonal lines in the spaces. That's what made me wonder if the page itself might be a map (or some kind of drawing).

.
Mnemonically, the idea of a gallows character (or a benched gallows) fits rather well with the idea of a castle or walled city. But there are also combination glyphs. What if the shape combined with some glyphs is a castle and the same shape combined with other glyphs is something else?

It was just an idea I had, a long time ago, that I thought might explain the great amount of positionality (combination glyphs) and repetition in the VMS, and perhaps even the positionality of a whole line, but i could never find an interpretation for the patterns that could be verified in any way.

RE: F79r as Mesopotamia - Linda - 07-02-2019

(06-02-2019, 10:38 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's hard to say. There are so many bodies of waters that connect in so many different ways, basic shapes could be matched to many of them.

If i were reading to you about a place where a freshwater river rises from a volcanic area, travels through a mountainous area where another river rises, both running in a southerly direction, roughly parallel to each other,  then joining up, becoming a single river which creates a silty brackish delta comprised of large curved bays and sandbars, how many places could you envision? 

What if i told you it was a place you would find on an ancient world map?

It is also not just there by itself in the middle of nowhere, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is the facing page, with volcano filled salty Lake Urmia, and freshwater Lake Sevan, which are located just east of where the Euphrates rises. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. And You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is next, with Gujarat in India, then on to the Red Sea, continuing on the Asia and Africa tour.

Insofar as basic shapes being matched to many water bodies, that may be true, but i would expect this one to rank high in being chosen if i said to pick the pool that most resembles the Persian Gulf out of all the pools in the quire. In fact i got the idea to look from the rosettes, the one connected to the TO map has seven waves, so i went looking for the seven seas of medieval times, and found references in the quire to not only those, but the marginal seas as well. 

I suppose nothing based on the images will be accepted until it completely matches some precedent, or if the text is translated and the context is revealed.  But in revisiting my interpretation, i have found further specifics in the drawings that have only made me more confident of the meaning i see in it. I don't think i am bending and shaping to fit a story, if i am, i'm unaware. I think the story is there to be seen.

RE: F79r as Mesopotamia - Linda - 07-02-2019

(06-02-2019, 11:18 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The ultimate meaning of these images could be something along those lines. But then it would certainly be an itinerary linked to information about the stars, as Diane believes. But I agree with JKP it's hard to say, with so many possibilities.

I should learn more about the ways stars were linked to locations historically, but it's not the most accessible subject. On this page the central nymphs (holding arms) can be understood quite readily as Gemini.

I was just reading something that said the Sumerians linked their seven seas with the seven planets.

I do believe navigation by stars, planets, moonrise, etc are implied by the caput draconis on f76v. Not sure if they are portrayed but that could well be the case.

It is interesting that you mention Gemini because in terms of astrological ages, that would be the age of the Sumerians, would it not? I think the zodiac section shows theses ages as a kind of history of humanity, there is no clothing nor architecture depicted past Gemini. The little that there is could be linked with this page. However i dont really know what time period is being portrayed.

I know it is hard to say one way or another. Gotta crack that text, i guess.

RE: F79r as Mesopotamia - Linda - 07-02-2019

[quote="-JKP-" pid='24723' dateline='1549496755']
Years ago, I was looking into the possibility that the text might be maps...

[Image: VMSStegMap.png]

Creative. I had an idea recently where the inclusion of certain glyphs were not part of the word but instead told you the language or origin of the information, or had some other exterior meaning being added to the text. But like you say the permutations are quite daunting to consider.