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+--- Thread: Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. (/thread-2633.html)
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Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. - Wladimir D - 25-01-2019
I wrote a blog in Russian. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I compared the distribution of words in Q13 and Q20 separately, if we take the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and the upper part of the text You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as a base of comparison.
For comparison, the distribution was taken when the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 1r was used as a base.
Hyperlinks are very large. You must wait.
The diagrams show the “amount of overlapping information” for each bifolio.
The subtleties of reasoning I can not translate into English, so I publish here only preliminary conclusions.
1 / The text on each bifolio was written before stitching them into the book Q20.
2 / The text of Q13 is highly specialized (not narrative).
3 / The last paragraph 116r is an imitation of the epilogue.
4 / Language “B” is gibberish.
* / 2-4 For the replacement character cipher
RE: Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. - ChenZheChina - 25-01-2019
Hi Wladimir,
I cannot read your blog because it is in Russian, but I could read your graphs.
It seems that Folio 108-111 and 103-116 are quite special, as both of them have long red bars compared to short blue bars in Диаграмма № 7.
Folio 105-114 is also a bit special because its blue bar is unusually longer than its red bar, also in Диаграмма № 7.
Unfortunately that is all I could read from graphs. I wish I could one day read your reasoning in English, or any other language I read.
RE: Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. - Wladimir D - 25-01-2019
The main thing is that the values of red columns for different bifolio are very different from each other, but within each bifolio they are not much different. Diagram 7 is averaged over bifolio.
This is the rationale for the first conclusion.
RE: Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. - Davidsch - 25-01-2019
May i ask what your idea and/or purpose is of publication of these results and this research is,
and what kind of feedback do you like to receive?
RE: Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. - Linda - 25-01-2019
(25-01-2019, 06:28 AM)ChenZheChina Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Wladimir,
I cannot read your blog because it is in Russian, but I could read your graphs.
Google translated version seems readable to me
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. - Wladimir D - 25-01-2019
(25-01-2019, 02:11 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.May i ask what your idea and/or purpose is of publication of these results and this research is,The purpose of the publication is to narrow down the variants of the approach to deciphering VMS, since it is possible to completely eliminate the use of a simple replacement substitution cipher.
and what kind of feedback do you like to receive?
Demonstrate once again the proposed “Volume of overlapping information” method, and when the community recognizes its effectiveness, adopt and automate it.
I still have hope for the sensible text of Herbal A and Recipes with banks, otherwise there was no need to copy 1: 1 simplified drawings in the section of containers.
RE: Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. - MarcoP - 25-01-2019
(25-01-2019, 08:10 AM)Wladimir D Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The main thing is that the values of red columns for different bifolio are very different from each other, but within each bifolio they are not much different. Diagram 7 is averaged over bifolio.
This is the rationale for the first conclusion.
This sounds like an excellent result! A good way to make things clearer could be a histogram with a bar for each page, side by side with the bifolio average. That should show that each single page is close to the bifolio average and different from pages in other bifolios.
I guess that similar results could be obtained with other page-similarity measures, e.g. PCA posted by Donald Fisk You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
On the other hand, I don't understand why this evidence should rule out the possibility of a simple substitution cipher.
RE: Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. - Linda - 25-01-2019
(25-01-2019, 05:57 AM)Wladimir D Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I wrote a blog in Russian. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I compared the distribution of words in Q13 and Q20 separately, if we take the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and the upper part of the text You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as a base of comparison.
For comparison, the distribution was taken when the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 1r was used as a base.
Hyperlinks are very large. You must wait.
The diagrams show the “amount of overlapping information” for each bifolio.
The subtleties of reasoning I can not translate into English, so I publish here only preliminary conclusions.
1 / The text on each bifolio was written before stitching them into the book Q20.
2 / The text of Q13 is highly specialized (not narrative).
3 / The last paragraph 116r is an imitation of the epilogue.
4 / Language “B” is gibberish.
* / 2-4 For the replacement character cipher
I think i noticed, through just playing with the words in Voynichese.com in the past, that there was more correlation between quire 13 and 20 than with the plants. I don't think quire 20 is recipes at all. Perhaps historical events, which mention places as outlined in 13 and 14.
RE: Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. - -JKP- - 25-01-2019
Wladimir, the charts are a good way to represent some of the structure of the text.
For the record, I don't know if it is clear to your readers from the comment on your blog, but I believe the SHAPES of the VMS glyphs are based on Latin and Latin abbreviations. The MEANING of the glyphs might be something quite different.
RE: Word Q13 and Q20 analysis. - Wladimir D - 25-01-2019
(25-01-2019, 06:46 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For the record, I don't know if it is clear to your readers from the comment on your blog, but I believe the SHAPES of the VMS glyphs are based on Latin and Latin abbreviations. The MEANING of the glyphs might be something quite different.
JKP/ I made a special reservation on the blog about the possibility of Latin abbreviations.
Marco/
On the other hand, I don't understand why this evidence should rule out the possibility of a simple substitution cipher.
Example Q13. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This distribution (density) of intersecting words (where the top part of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. without an epilogue is taken as the base of comparison) is provided with a lexicon of 177 non-unique words. This number, I think, can be increased by 10% due to possible homonyms, but at the same time it is necessary (with the cipher-replacement of characters) to reduce this number several times, since it includes the semantic meanings of words changed by persons, numbers, gender, conjugations. I cannot imagine a meaningful text with such a distribution of words from the lexicon less than 100 words (instead of 177), especially if we assume that the text is attached to pictures, since the distribution structure does not change when moving from pictures (themes) Q13A to Q13B.