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+--- Thread: Voynich buys some Jesuit manuscripts (/thread-2618.html)
RE: Voynich buys some Jesuit manuscripts - ReneZ - 01-05-2023
The volume dated 2022 only became available a good week ago.
RE: Voynich buys some Jesuit manuscripts - bi3mw - 05-08-2023
(30-04-2023, 03:00 PM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Possibly this, cited in ReneZ website;
Potenza, Francesca: Un acquisto da farsi prudenter et sine strepitu: l’arrivo in Vaticana di manoscritti e stampati del Collegio Romano all’inizio del XX secolo. In: Donatell Bucca, Fr. D’Aiuto, M. Re (ed). Nea Rhome, Rivista di ricerche bizantinistiche, 19 (2022), pp. 317-368.
I’m unsure why Rene writes something was published in April 2023 but the references the info above.
Here's the link. Unfortunately I can`t read Italian, but for some members of the forum this shouldn`t be a problem.
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RE: Voynich buys some Jesuit manuscripts - ReneZ - 05-08-2023
In fact I am just in the process of preparing a more extensive English summary than what is now at my web site.
RE: Voynich buys some Jesuit manuscripts - Scarecrow - 07-08-2023
From, quick reading and for what I understand from it, the study says that it is quite sure that the manuscripts Voynich acquired were in fact stored at Villa Torlonia in Castel Gandolfo. It seems to be also quite sure, that it was father Joseph Strickland who transferred those manuscripts (listed in the APUG 3289) to Villa Mondragone in Frascati.
This could confirm Ethel's description that Wilfried acquired those manuscripts in castle at Frascati.
The manuscripts Voynich acquired were listed in two different catalogs APUG 3289 and APUG 3225, and those catalogs are almost identical.
Reason for this double catalog is not known, but it could be that they were made for two different reasons: one for keeping track of manuscripts that could be potentially sold as for their age, and other to keep track of manuscripts for Jesuits interest.
The APUG3289 contains manuscripts and other material orignating from library of Collegio Romano, of which most of them are now placed in the Vatican Archives.
It seems that the APUG 3289 has been compiled by.. the belgian jesuite Pierre-Jan Beckx. Beckx, to avoid confiscation of the library and suppression of the religious orders of Rome, stamped those manuscripts with he's ex-libris "Ex Bibliotheca privata P. Petri Beckx", to obfuscate them to be he's own private books. These books were later transferred to Castel Gandolfo, Villa Torlonia.
From 1912 some of those were transferred to Vatican Library, but a small part of these, were transferred to Villa Mondragone from where Voynich acquired some of them.
Last thing is about the dating. The APUG3289 has a title "Catalog of codex and prints acquired by the Library of Vatican on 1903", but the catalog is connected to two distinct transactions on 1911/1912 (Voynich) and 1912 (Vatican Library). The year 1903 might not be casual, as in that period the senate of the Italy approved the law of conservation of historical objects, allowing the state to have pre-emption in any historical book and manuscript sold. But it is still unclear why 1903 as the law was already in place.
RE: Voynich buys some Jesuit manuscripts - ReneZ - 07-08-2023
(07-08-2023, 11:59 AM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It seems to be also quite sure, that it was father Joseph Strickland who transferred those manuscripts (listed in the APUG 3289) to Villa Mondragone in Frascati.
No, there is no evidence of this.
(07-08-2023, 11:59 AM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It seems that the APUG 3289 has been compiled by.. the belgian jesuite Pierre-Jan Beckx.
I also don't think that that is correct.
It remains a matter of guesswork why Ethel mentioned Frascati.
RE: Voynich buys some Jesuit manuscripts - Scarecrow - 07-08-2023
(07-08-2023, 12:33 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(07-08-2023, 11:59 AM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It seems to be also quite sure, that it was father Joseph Strickland who transferred those manuscripts (listed in the APUG 3289) to Villa Mondragone in Frascati.
No, there is no evidence of this.
Some evidence at least but no smoking-gun.
In the study there is written (page 345) that Strickland is implicated as from the "diary of the house" and from the "registry of the spending" of Castel Gandolfo, that he went for two "lunch" meetings at villa Torlonia, and as Strickland was resident of villa Mondragone, these visits may implicate that he did move manuscripts between the two places.
Quote:(07-08-2023, 11:59 AM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It seems that the APUG 3289 has been compiled by.. the belgian jesuite Pierre-Jan Beckx.
I also don't think that that is correct.
At page 339 they study says, regarding th APUG3289, that according to the research of Francesca Niutta, the index has been connected to Beckx.
"Secondo la convincente ricostruzione di FrancescaNiutta, l’indice andrebbe fatto risalire al gesuita belga Pierre-Jean Beckx (1795 - 1887), il quale, preposito generale della Compagnia di Gesù dal 1853"
Quote:It remains a matter of guesswork why Ethel mentioned Frascati.Yes.
RE: Voynich buys some Jesuit manuscripts - ReneZ - 08-08-2023
Indeed, the house diary of Castel Ganodolfo says that Strickland came to visit in April 1912.
We may assume that these visits are related to Wilfrid's acquisition of the books, but even that is not sure. It is certainly not written in the diary. Wilfrid never visited this place, according to this diary.
What's more, according to the diary of Villa Mondragone, Wilfrid also never visited that place.
We are completely in the dark about exactly how Strickland and Voynich interacted.
There really is no role in the story for Villa Mondragone. The only reason why the author of the paper did not definitely rule out Villa Mondragone is the fact that Ethel Voynich mentioned Frascati.
Also, even as Strickland was in Villa Mondragone in April 1912, he was 'just back' from Florence where he had been since 1903, and where Voynich had his book shop.
W.r.t. Beckx, he died in 1887, decades before the two catalogues were created. His link to this is that the books listed in both catalogues came from his so-called private library.
The only known Jesuit who can be brought in connection with the two lists is Felice Grossi Gondi S.J. Like Francesca Potenza, I had to rely on Lorenzo Mancini to decipher his name, which is barely legible.
When I last visited the area, I noted that he has a street named after him in Frascati (bad photo alert).
The document APUG 3289 is the original of the Vatican document Arch.Bibl.109 that I described at my site since 2015 or thereabouts.
People interested can read more about it You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
RE: Voynich buys some Jesuit manuscripts - Scarecrow - 08-08-2023
Quote:We may assume that these visits are related to Wilfrid's acquisition of the books, but even that is not sure. It is certainly not written in the diary. Wilfrid never visited this place, according to this diary.
What's more, according to the diary of Villa Mondragone, Wilfrid also never visited that place.
Maybe they decided not to record any of activity related to this matter, as to keep it secret. I certainly wouldn't have written anything anywhere.
Quote:We are completely in the dark about exactly how Strickland and Voynich interacted.
There really is no role in the story for Villa Mondragone. The only reason why the author of the paper did not definitely rule out Villa Mondragone is the fact that Ethel Voynich mentioned Frascati.
Seems so. The archives of the gesuites also say so.
"About Mondragone...
The father's (Strickland) name has often been linked to the affair of the famous Voynich manuscript, which we will discuss in this column, since a letter from the collector's wife would indicate him as the person who allowed the secret sale of the precious manuscript.
Investigations, which are still ongoing, into the archive material have not confirmed this hypothesis, so we will return to this interesting manuscript in a new instalment of the column."
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No records of any interaction. Possibly Ethel mentioned Frascati to mislead everyone from the secret.
RE: Voynich buys some Jesuit manuscripts - ReneZ - 08-08-2023
That's quite old by now and there is other evidence.
All will become a bit clearer soon(-ish).
RE: Voynich buys some Jesuit manuscripts - ReneZ - 10-08-2023
I have now done a first major update to: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , though some further tuning is still required.
Other pages that are linked though it have also been updated.
I am also planning to do a much cleaner write-up, which will take a bit more time.