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+--- Thread: Stylistics of the "astrological" section (/thread-2543.html)
RE: Stylistics of the "astrological" section - Koen G - 12-11-2018
My new philosophy in Voynich matters is to ask: does this move us forward? If it doesn't, it's not worth my time.
It was a different story for other "heritage" section names like "recipe section". I noticed that this caused confusion on various levels, since people used it to refer to the small plants etc. This confusion is gone now more people are using "quire 20".
RE: Stylistics of the "astrological" section - MarcoP - 12-11-2018
(12-11-2018, 10:33 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My new philosophy in Voynich matters is to ask: does this move us forward? If it doesn't, it's not worth my time.
This is confusing.
You invested your and my time raising an issue with my usage of the "zodiac section" expression; returning to a discussion that was had many times. How does this move us forward exactly?
RE: Stylistics of the "astrological" section - Koen G - 12-11-2018
No, Marco, I didn't. Is anyone still doing any research these days?
RE: Stylistics of the "astrological" section - Searcher - 12-11-2018
(12-11-2018, 11:09 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No, Marco, I didn't. Is anyone still doing any research these days?
I do.
RE: Stylistics of the "astrological" section - Helmut Winkler - 12-11-2018
me too. but i don't walk around on the beaten paths of image content and cryptography where we can be sure that there will be no results
RE: Stylistics of the "astrological" section - Koen G - 12-11-2018
Which paths would you consider unbeaten, Helmut?
RE: Stylistics of the "astrological" section - Helmut Winkler - 12-11-2018
(12-11-2018, 05:12 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Which paths would you consider unbeaten, Helmut?
mostly the palaeographical problems and potential written sources
RE: Stylistics of the "astrological" section - Diane - 13-11-2018
Koen
That's a fascinating question that you directed to Helmut Winkler - Would you consider starting a thread about it somewhere so that everyone can share their views of what needs to be done?
re 'unbreaten paths', I've been investigating the first premises that led to the elaboration of some story=history=fiction= theory .
So far, the astonishing thing is that so very few have any basis in preliminary research at all. Someone looks at the ms. An idea just *pops* in their brain, and the rest of their career is spent in a quasi-religious way, trying to convert the unbelievers into believers.
Disclaimer: No reference to any persons enrolled in this forum, or who might in future become members.
RE: Stylistics of the "astrological" section - davidjackson - 14-11-2018
Hi Marco,
I was mainly referring to this thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
What I meant is that it's not a horoscope. The imagery doesn't correspond with any medieval system I have know of that was ever used to actively predict the future. Some people used to call the zodiac the "horoscope" and that annoyed me back then. A correct knowledge of terminology and methodology is necessary before delving into the murky, mysterious and mystical world of astrology.
I would divide the medieval (and by extension, the modern!) concept of the influence of the zodiac into two states, active and passive. Passive would be the attributes you were imbued with according to your sign, and as discussed in your examples - ie, you're a Taurus so you are humble and hardworking. Lazrado (lazrar) is defined by the RAE as "to have and suffer work and misery", by the way. Certainly an unpleasant word! Anybody know of an English equivalent?
Active is trying to cast a fortune based upon your zodiac, and that's when you get astrological charts and all the rest of the mumbo-jumbo.
It's the second case I think we can disregard. Indeed, some medieval commentators made the same distinction and would believe in the first but discard the second.
Certainly the zodiac section could contain passive elements, and as I have argued elsewhere, probably does. The technical term for this is a myrogenesis, or degrees of the zodiac. But as you say, the text will tell all!
I hope I've cleared up my reasoning for you.
RE: Stylistics of the "astrological" section - MarcoP - 14-11-2018
Thank you David,
you have cleared some of my doubts.
I agree that there is no reason to think that the zodiac section is a horoscope (or a set of horoscopes).
While the Lapidario truly is "passive astrology" according to your definition, I believe that Reg Lat 1283.a counts as "active astrology". The use of those zodiac wheels was to foresee the destiny of a person (note the future tense "sera") on the basis of the zodiac degree the sun was in at its birth. It certainly is a very basic form of fortune-telling, only requiring your day of birth without the need of a complete horoscope, but it still is astrological fortune telling. For instance, the fourth degree of Gemini:
"A qui nasciere en el sera feminino y muy malo y sabidor de nigromancia"
Who is born in this degree will be effeminate and very bad and knowledgeable in necromancy.
One born on April 20 "will be humble and hardworking".
One born on May 28 "will be an evil necromancer".
If the content of the Voynich zodiac section should result to be similar to the Lapidario, it would have a "passive astrological" content.
If it should result to be myrogenesis-based fortune-telling, like Reg Lat 1283.a, it would be very basic "active astrology".
If it proved to be something entirely different, it might not be astrological in any sense. It might still be astronomical in the modern sense (e.g. representing stars corresponding to the single degrees of the zodiac). Or it might be a 360-days calendar, with each nymph being a personification of a day, somehow similarly to the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Or....