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+--- Thread: Reality checks - considering Lauber (/thread-2537.html)
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RE: Reality checks - considering Lauber - -JKP- - 12-11-2018
(12-11-2018, 07:09 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JKP,
the argument about the palette of colours will be difficult to defend.
Leaving aside that many of the colours in the Voynich MS may have been added later (but we don't know)...
The Voynich MS is on parchment and all Lauber manuscripts are on paper. I strongly suspect that some if not many pigments are suited better for one medium.
More specifically, the Lauber manuscripts have several colours that are lacking in the Voynich MS: large areas of red orange and blue, while in the Voynich MS red and blue tend to be small patches, and are of a crystalline nature. This is obvious under the microscope, and can be seen in the Austrian documentary.
I agree with this. The Lauber palette is broader, but out of thousands of manuscripts, only a few come very close to the same shades that are found in the VMS and Lauber studio images are on that list.
And it's never about any one thing (at least I don't see it that way). Palette, content, drawing style, anatomy. A long checklist, more research, confirm or deny, etc. Lauber is definitely on my radar and for more reasons than have been mentioned on this thread.
RE: Reality checks - considering Lauber - Diane - 13-11-2018
I'd be glad to have some responses to my post made clearer.
For example, Rene says:
"One of his slides was dedicated to a cross-check of C14 results, either between two labs or with independent evidence. This largely confirmed the validity of the estimated error margins."
So is that to be taken as meaning that you can't play fast-and-loose with a 1338/40 as end date.... or you can? (I seem to recall quite a number of people pushing for dates as late as 1470 or even 1500 for a while there).
Sorry to be dense JKP but I'm not sure what you mean by
"It isn't just costumes. The palette is very similar."
PS - If you want to learn about dating paintings and manuscripts by the pigments and their range employed in a given time and context, do let me know and I'll pass some book titles on to you. You might be able to find them in one of the larger libraries, but the best tend to be quite expensive.
Rene - "the argument about the palette of colours will be difficult to defend." - just f.y.i there's no need in English to say 'of colours' when speaking about the range of pigments used -i.e. palette.
I would also agree that while it seems as if some post 1440 works produced in Germany show evidence of contact of some sort or other to some of the matter in some sections of the Vms, it isn't close enough in terms of codicology, stylistics or pigments, drawing-style or cultural expression to be considered very closely akin, but Koen has brought up a couple of very interesting similarities, adding to those already observed in other 'Books of Marvels'.
Personally, I see no good reason to get involved with printed works. Most are too late to be relevant. But that's just IMO.
RE: Reality checks - considering Lauber - davidjackson - 13-11-2018
Quote: Rene - "the argument about the palette of colours will be difficult to defend." - just f.y.i there's no need in English to say
'of colours' when speaking about the range of pigments used -i.e. palette.
FWIIW, if we are going to be pedantic, I would suggest you shouldn't say "range of pigments" in English to refer to colour as pigments are not uniform substances. A range, by definition, sorts things of a same type.
One can discuss "a range of pigments" to identify the pigment materials used (as the term is used in archaeology or conservation, for example). But it makes no sense to discuss, ie, " the range of pigment red" when cinnabar and Vermillion both produce red, but are very different substances with different sources, different uses and different usages. It is impossible to understand what pigment is being referred to when one speaks of "the reds produced by a pigment", because many pigments produce similar colours.
One can, of course, and often does, refer to a "palette of pigments" because a palette is delimited. But that's not the same as a range of pigments.
RE: Reality checks - considering Lauber - Diane - 17-11-2018
Koen - absolutely right, but in the technical sense a pigment is anything that lends colour to another substance. The range of pigments is therefore the range of materials (simple or compound) employed to lend colour to any sort of vehicle, whether it might be a vat of mordant or an oil for painting.. In fact we do tend to speak of media in classes.
However when we do speak of a painter's palette, or the palette found in a certain time and region, or a specific manuscript, we speak of the 'palette' only, since the term 'pigments' is redundant.
My advice to Rene did not require connection; it was not ill-intentioned and - not to overemphasise the fact - it comes from almost forty years continuous work in the field of iconographic analysis (scholarly and technical).
In future, any member of this forum who finds it a pleasure to publish assertions whose only purpose is to publicly demean my character or competence are invited to email me directly and express their sentiments directly.
If I haven't time to respond in person, I'll have some friend respond on my behalf. Saves bothering the moderators here, doesn't it?