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+--- Thread: The quest for Anchiton (/thread-2521.html)
RE: The quest for Anchiton - DONJCH - 25-10-2018
(24-10-2018, 12:10 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Asbestos = "alumen plumeum"
Alumen/Alumine/amianthus/amiantos = alum (sulfate of potassium and aluminum)
In the parlance of the ancients and medievals, both were minerals called "alumen". One was used for insulation, the other ground to a powder for medicine, baking, and dying.
Raw alum looks like this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Raw asbestos looks like this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I have been meaning to point out that alum itself is also used to fireproof organic materials such as wood or cloth.
I wonder if this property could help make more sense of the wording in any of the references or You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. itself?
I imagine for instance that fireproofing of clothing would be of interest to an alchemist (or indeed a priest) who is often working with fire. Also in the context of women's health, until the 20th Century, a common cause of death was clothing catching on fire in the kitchen.
Of course, this is probably yet another red herring.
RE: The quest for Anchiton - Anton - 25-10-2018
As a reminder to myself, I also planned to check how this altar wood is called in the early versions Vulgate.
This investigation of the "biblical" branch is so fascinating that no time is left for me to write about the Alexander's gate! Hope in the weekend, or maybe tomorrow evening...
And note that no matter how deep we dig, no trace of "oladabas"...
RE: The quest for Anchiton - Anton - 26-10-2018
St Jerome's passage concludes something like this:
Quote:ignosce lector difficultati et veniam tribue pauperis intelligentiae
Does not seem of much importance.
Checked 11th century Vulgate (the Giant Bible You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.), it has it as "sethim" (f27v, right column)
Haven't found anything earlier than that which would feature Exodus.
RE: The quest for Anchiton - Anton - 26-10-2018
So, to recap the "biblical" branch, at the moment it stays like this. St. Jerome while commenting the point of the Bible that the altar of the tabernacle was made of wood advised the readers that this is not that fabulous, because it is known that there is a kind of wood called amianton which also resists fire. Later this comment was quoted by St. Bede, who possibly mistook "amianton" for "amiton", or at least this what we read in a couple of early manuscripts. Then, while the word "amianton" was still carried forward in quotations of Jerome and Bede's Jerome, at some point of time it also somehow got distorted into "anchiton", and in this word form it found its way into Glossa Ordinaria, or at least in its earliest printed version. That version postdates Voynich for half a century, but it is probable that "anchiton" came into scene earlier than it was actually printed. Unfortunately, we cannot yet find the exact time and place when this curious substitution took place - nor do we have any clear ethymological understanding of the word.
If this word was borrowed by the VMS scribe from a version of Jerome's comment, then, quite probably, it was through Glossa, because that would be the most widespread source featuring "anchiton". Another possibility coming to my mind is through some hymn. I have seen a medieval manuscript containing a hymn about the tabernacle. It does not feature anything related to anchiton or amianton, but just for the sake of example. Given that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. "spell" hints to some piece of vernacular poetry, such poetry could freely borrow from a hymn - into which "anchiton" would make its way from the Glossa.
Those are many "if's", and no trace of "oladabas" withal.
RE: The quest for Anchiton - Anton - 26-10-2018
Then, there is another branch where a trace of "anchiton" is found. That is the legend of "Alexander's Gate".
There are some books dedicated to the history of this quite famous legend, but, to my knowledge, the most comprehensive one is by Andrew Runni Anderson, 1932, called "Alexander's Gate, Gog and Magog, and the Inclosed Nations". Its print-on-demand edition is available at Amazon for an affordable price of some ten USD, for those who are interested. This book is the continuation of an earlier paper by Anderson, 1928, called "Alexander at the Caspian Gates", which I still haven't chance of examining. What I describe below is mostly based on Anderson's book, so I omit references to Anderson for brevity.
The brief story of the legend is this.
There was the term "Caspian Gates" used by classical geographers and Pliny. It was applied to passes between Media and Parthia south-east to modern Teheran. (This term was used without implying that Alexander built any gate there).
From the times of Nero onward, some authors like Tacitus, Suetonius, Josephus (Flavius) and others, begin to use the term "Caspian Gates" applied quite to another pass - namely the pass of Dariel in the central Caucasus. This is the point on the Russian-Georgian border, and the so-called Georgian Military Road passes through it. It is said (not by Anderson) that as early as late BC, or at least in the 1st c. AD there existed a real gate built by some local king. And these references to the "Caspian Gates" began to state or imply that Alexander built a gate there.
Somewhere around 1200-1300, however, the site of Alexander's gate shifted, in the representation of historians, to yet another pass - the pass of Derbend. Fortifications were built there in 6th century AD - by local kings as well, but the memory thereof did somehow vanish with time, and the fortification began to be associated with Alexander. Derbend (now in Russia) still boasts these ancient fortifications.
It was Anderson who restored the "true" location of the Alexander's gate to the pass of Dariel. I place the word "true" in quotes, because the real Alexander has never been there.
(I will continue in a while).
RE: The quest for Anchiton - MarcoP - 27-10-2018
(26-10-2018, 10:17 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.St. Jerome while commenting the point of the Bible that the altar of the tabernacle was made of wood advised the readers that this is not that fabulous, because it is known that there is a kind of wood called amianton which also resists fire. Later this comment was quoted by St. Bede, who possibly mistook "amianton" for "amiton", or at least this what we read in a couple of early manuscripts.
Apparently, the corruption of the name began during the transmission of Jerome's text. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a XII Century manuscript of Jerome's commentary. Here (f.160v) the word has become "amiaton" - an intermediate stage between "amianton" and "amiton". Those that appeared as corrections in earlier manuscripts ("ligni" for "lini", the addition of "quod") have now been incorporated into the main text.
RE: The quest for Anchiton - -JKP- - 27-10-2018
I can see how amianton could easily become amiaton...
This is the way amia'ton (amianton) would usually be abbreviated (with a straight macron substituted above the "a" where I typed the apostrophe).
If the scribe forgot the macron (or if the next scribe didn't notice the macron) , then the "n" would disappear.
RE: The quest for Anchiton - Anton - 27-10-2018
Quote:Apparently, the corruption of the name began during the transmission of Jerome's text. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a XII Century manuscript of Jerome's commentary. Here (f.160v) the word has become "amiaton" - an intermediate stage between "amianton" and "amiton". Those that appeared as corrections in earlier manuscripts ("ligni" for "lini", the addition of "quod") have now been incorporated into the main text.
There must have been several branches of distortion, since the 9th century Cod. Sang 266 has it "amiton" already. I wonder when and where it became "anchiton".
RE: The quest for Anchiton - -JKP- - 28-10-2018
(27-10-2018, 11:20 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:Apparently, the corruption of the name began during the transmission of Jerome's text. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a XII Century manuscript of Jerome's commentary. Here (f.160v) the word has become "amiaton" - an intermediate stage between "amianton" and "amiton". Those that appeared as corrections in earlier manuscripts ("ligni" for "lini", the addition of "quod") have now been incorporated into the main text.
There must have been several branches of distortion, since the 9th century Cod. Sang 266 has it "amiton" already. I wonder when and where it became "anchiton".
amianton would be abbreviated amia'ton or ami'ton; corruption = amiton
ligni would be abbreviated li'ni; corruption = lini
Those would be natural corruptions, since the macron was frequently substituted for n or m (forgetting or not noticing the macron would result in dropped characters).
But yeah, as Anton points out, anchiton can't be derived in the same way.
RE: The quest for Anchiton - MarcoP - 28-10-2018
Anchiton also occurs in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (printed):
Biblia latina cum glossa ordinaria Walafridi Strabonis aliorumque. et interlineari Anselmi Laudunensis. et cum postillis ac moralitatibus Nicolai de Lyra. Basel : Johannes Froben und Johannes Petri, 1. Dezember 1498. Prima pars (pag.129)
I checked manuscripts of De Lyre's You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (both included in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) but I couldn't find our passage. Unless I missed something, the passage appears to come directly from some manuscript of Bede's commentary.