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+--- Thread: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° (/thread-2460.html)
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Koen G - 09-02-2019
Hmm yes, I would agree that the faces in the faces in your first picture are rather Voynichesque. Is this MS online somewhere?
Besides the similarities, a notable difference would be that these standing figures have rather stately "gothic" proportions while standard VM nymphs are only 4 heads tall.
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Linda - 09-02-2019
(09-02-2019, 12:16 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hmm yes, I would agree that the faces in the faces in your first picture are rather Voynichesque. Is this MS online somewhere?
Besides the similarities, a notable difference would be that these standing figures have rather stately "gothic" proportions while standard VM nymphs are only 4 heads tall.
You are right and they look the most similar on that page due to the holding stance. Oh well. Perhaps it is still of use.
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I found this page that shows various comparisons of pages from other versions. But they don't look so much like our nymphs.
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RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - MarcoP - 19-03-2020
A few details from the manuscript pointed out by Linda- You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Thomasin von Zerklaere Welscher Gast (Erl) — Heilsbronn (?), 14. Jh. I don't remember browsing through it when she originally posted the link...
Image numbers: ball? 07, bird 25, crown 45, fish 20, lily? 09, love 16
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - -JKP- - 19-03-2020
The bird is especially good, Marco, even though the texture is different, the shape is an excellent match for the general style of the outline.
I've collected countless bird drawings, looking for something similar, but I don't think any are as similar as the one you just posted.
Also, if you look at the snake in the fish's mouth, it is a snub-nosed serpent without ears, which is also somewhat hard to find, and there is one in the root in the small-plants section in the VMS. It's possible to find snub-nosed snakes, but they are not super common.
Also the fish has the right kind of tail and all-over scales, although I think the one you spotted in Sachsenspiegel might be a closer match overall.
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Koen G - 19-03-2020
Well found, Marco. I agree that especially the bird is very similar. It's strange, this MS contains a dozen or so birds and all look rather different, only this one (maybe from another Welscher Gast) was maybe copied into the VM. If the MSS are indeed related (which I believe) then it looks as if the VM used it for "models", disconnected from their original context or meaning.
Also remarkable in these MSS is how they draw female genitalia without issues. Here's an example from the ca. 1420 Heidelberg MS. And another similarity
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - nickpelling - 19-03-2020
This is a great family of illustrated manuscripts, and it indeed seems to have been used as source material for some of the Voynich's drawings. The bird is excellent, as is Koen's child.
Koen, are you planning to pick this up in your blog?
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Koen G - 19-03-2020
(19-03-2020, 09:29 PM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Koen, are you planning to pick this up in your blog?
Not at all, Nick, be my guest. In the current circumstances my workload has increased with semi-homeschooling and entertaining my actual child, and there is not much time and energy left for academic endeavors.
At most I might finish a blog post draft about a different subject, but I have not written anything about these MSS yet, nor studied anything more than what I posted in the course of this thread.