The Voynich Ninja
Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Printable Version

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RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Davidsch - 11-09-2018

I would be interested in knowing where you found that exact button for the vices, bi3mw?

Anyway, the transcription is different from the text on the circle, for example
nyd <-Neid
lugn <- Lüge
zorn ?  So the naked figure depicts  'anger'? That is very unusual.

Perhaps it was 'sin', in german Sünde. In High German perhaps Zünn ?

RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Koen G - 11-09-2018

David, I didn't find it in the beginning either. There's this little tab that opens and closes the info box.

   

RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - bi3mw - 11-09-2018

@Davidsch: If you drag the mouse on a figure (highlighted), then the matching part of the word list is also marked.

The whole interactive thing is WIP, so unfortunately the word list is not scrollable. It`s hard to see which word belongs to which figure at the bottom of the list Sad

RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - bi3mw - 12-09-2018

Here`s the correct order.


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[Image: Wgast01.png]
1.)   Lüge
2.)   Selbstruhm
3.)   Unrecht
4.)   Trinklust
5.)   Raub
6.)   Gewalt
7.)   Maßlosigkeit
8.)   Übermut
9.)   Betrügerei
10.) Hurerei
11.) Unbeständigkeit
12.) Gier
13.) Kargheit
14.) Wucher
15.) Neid
16.) Zorn

RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Davidsch - 13-09-2018

It appears I was talking about the naked figure being "sinn~zünn", that's not the same figure as "zorn"

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attempt

1. lügen
2. zünn
3. unrecht
4. ?...kenhait
5. ro?b?
6. gewalt
7. unmäß
8. übe®müt
9. truge®hait ?
10 hüzgelust ?
11.unstete
12. frge ?
13. girde
14. würcher
15. nyd
16. zorn

in the middle:  boß haitt  (ENG: resentment)

RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - bi3mw - 13-09-2018

It looks like the figures in "Cod. Memb. I 120" and "Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2°" are in exactly the same order.

RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Helmut Winkler - 13-09-2018

(13-09-2018, 03:29 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It appears I was talking about the naked figure being "sinn~zünn", that's not the same figure as "zorn"

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attempt

1. lügen
2. zünn
3. unrecht
4. ?...kenhait
5. ro?b?
6. gewalt
7. unmäß
8. übe®müt
9. truge®hait ?
10 hüzgelust ?
11.unstete
12. frge ?
13. girde
14. würcher
15. nyd
16. zorn

in the middle:  boß haitt  (ENG: resentment)

2. ruom - Ruhm(sucht)/thirst for glory
4. trunckenhait
5. roub - Raub/robbery
9. trugehait - Trägheit/laziness, idleness
10. huorgelust - Lust auf Huren/longing for whores, fornication
12. Erge - I can't identify the word without the dictionaries, I suppose it  is somrthing like GER arg EN bad
14. wuocher - Wucher/usury

RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Davidsch - 14-09-2018

@Helmut, possibly here? You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:  in the middle:  (die) Untugent (from the "Tanz der Untugenden")
Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2°: in the middle:  boß haitt  

Searched for Tanz der... there seem to be three mentioned here, click on the labels!  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

then I searched for "tanz der boßhaitt" and there some background can be found quickly here: 

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Wikipedia: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

thomasin von zerclaere (1186-1238). bairisches Mittelhochdeutsch 
Die älteste überlieferte Version seines Werkes befindet sich in der Universitätsbibliothek Heidelberg unter der Signatur Cpg 389.
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Look at the book cover and Read also the excellent questions in the preface.

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Cod. Pal. germ 463. found here
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Schreiber eintrag des Siverid Hocha (Sigefredus Hocha) on 77v:
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look at [sh] ~ est ?
Look at the signature. d of siverid
inside the rectangle: 1463 

sample text
225 r wan der frvm man sol tvn haz dann dv lerest wizze daz. 
Hie wil ich dir ende gehen. Got gehe daz wir an ende lehen
Dvrh die dri hailigen namen vater, svn hailiger gaist Amen.

Full text at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

All similar works, Thomasin von Zerklære: 'Der Welsche Gast': You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - bi3mw - 14-09-2018

The book can still be bought directly from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but I think You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  is much cheaper.

Beweglichkeit der Bilder
Text und Imagination in den illustrierten Handschriften des "Welschen Gastes" von Thomasin von Zerclaere

Published: Horst Wenzel and Christina Lechtermann

RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Linda - 07-02-2019

Sorry if has been posted before, but I just saw the closest match to the nymphs that I've ever seen, right down to the red cheeks. Clothed and maybe not as chubby. 

[Image: 00337965.jpg] 

Edit...doesnt help when you cant see the thing im talking about, lets try this

[Image: science-allegories-liberal-arts-miniatur...CPGYAR.jpg]

From  [Image: 9783110899856.jpg] 

Although not that copy, evidently a parchment fragment Erlangen ms b7? It is not in this timeline but there are others that are also somewhat similar to our nymphs. 

[Image: scrip_0036-9772_1982_num_36_2_T1_0177_0000_1.png] 

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This is a comparative study that lists the other versions. No pics though. Haven't read it all yet.
 The Contamination of MS D of Der Welsche Gast (Dresden, Sächs. Landesbibl. M 67) [article]A Comparative Study of Text and Illustration Cycle Judith A. Davidson  

Here is another version of the same page as the first one i posted, much less like our nymphs, though. Heidelberg.

[Image: ms_heidelberg.jpg] 

And i saw several versions of Koen's marriage handshake i think 

[Image: 10ee165d153580665d578258e4f6833c--mediev...elberg.jpg]
Crossed hands? In mid air

 [Image: privatslg_o-sig.jpg] 
This one has a figure holding triune wheat and the other has a dress that reminds me of gemini female

I also saw some other things that seem familiar along the way, like some of the pages have drawings down the side of a page, saw at least one naked nymph

Was going to post in another thread then i thought to search to see if anyone had mentioned these, so i copied it here instead.

Various odds and sods

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