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+--- Thread: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° (/thread-2460.html)
Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Koen G - 30-08-2018
During the last hour or so I have grown convinced that certain images from the Zodiac section have been borrowed from one or more popular books on courtly love, correct nobility behavior and so on. I shared my latest finds in other threads, and here's another one. I'm actually really tired and I should go to bed, but I just need to post one more thing
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a 2nd half 15thC version of the only preserved work by Italian poet You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. He wrote it in the early 13th century in Middle High German; "The text is aimed at young nobles lecturing on courtesy, courtly love (minne), and chivalry, based on contemporary scholastic works on ethics, philosophy, and the liberal arts. The adoption of (Bavarian) Middle High German by a non-native speaker is a valuable contemporary source for linguistic researchers."
I found You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in particular interesting in this MS.
There's also an unusual circle on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (way to transfer head lice).
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Anton - 30-08-2018
That's interesting. The central figure is labeled "Bosheit", and various bad things such as "Zorn" dance to the tune of "Bosheit".
I don't think though that this has anything in common with the VMS beyond the general paradigm of depicting homogenous objects in a circle, the centre of which denotes the common basis uniting those. In the VMS that is the Zodiac sign, here it is Malice.
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - -JKP- - 30-08-2018
Wow, take the clothes off the people in the first rotum and with a little extra embellishment (more figures), you almost have a template for the VMS zodiac illustrations.
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Koen G - 31-08-2018
Anton: I do see some parallels with the VM circles, even though the contents are clearly different. I wonder if more of such images existed.
Has anything like this been found before? A personification of an abstract concept in a central disk, surrounded by a circular row of labelled human figures.
If this is relevant - and that's a big if - it could be that the VM illustrator used this layout to display information about the month (abstract figure) and its stars (circles of humans).
I must add that this reminded me most of the months where the VM figures are few, clothed and painted - that is especially white Aries.
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - -JKP- - 31-08-2018
I can't remember the shelf number, but there's a Greek manuscript (I think it was Greek, it's about 3 years since I've looked at it in depth) with figures in a wheel that has been mentioned a couple of times. It includes animals as well (some of them fairly well drawn).
It's probably in the Vatican archives.
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - MarcoP - 01-09-2018
(31-08-2018, 10:14 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Anton: I do see some parallels with the VM circles, even though the contents are clearly different. I wonder if more of such images existed.
Has anything like this been found before? A personification of an abstract concept in a central disk, surrounded by a circular row of labelled human figures.
The general layout is discussed by Barbara Obrist in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. In the diagrams she presents, the central personifications can represent the Sun and the Moon, or the Year, but in Christian art also God as the creator is common. In the Reims illustration, the central figure is Air. In the Alencon ms, it is an unlabelled king that I cannot identify. Hildegard's illustration is more complex: the figure at the centre is a king holding the Sun and the Moon in his hands (the Year, I guess): similarly to the Voynich zodiac pages, the surrounding personifications are arranged in several concentric circles, but here the circles represent different sets of entities (seasons, winds, the weather). Hildegard's illustration contains the parallel for the Voynich "cannon ball" You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Darren Worley pointed out on the site of Stephen Bax a Breviari d'Amor illustration (Yates Thompson 31) in which each of the seven planets holds a tethered star: in this case the centre of the diagram is not a personification, but an abstract circle of many colours. A similar diagram of the seven planets in a German ms (that I could not trace) has a human figure at its centre.
BNF Fr.857 is another Breviari D'Amor manuscript that contains a similarly arranged illustration of the Angelic hierarchies: this illustration is interesting because the angels are arranged in several irregular circular segments, apparently in order to squeeze all of the in the page. The result is similar to what can be observed in the VMS signs from Gemini to Sagittarius. The angels are not individually labelled: there are titles for each angelic order.
The Voynich zodiac illustrations form a cycle of pages with a similar layout, all featuring a zodiac medallion at the center. Similar cycles appear in three Alphonsine works:
- You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - there are exactly 30 scenes around each zodiac sign; the scenes are labelled and each of them is composed of images derived from asterisms; many of the scenes include a single person, but some have two people and others show animals instead.
- You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - again, there are exactly 30 radial segments around each zodiac sign. Each segment includes a personification (an angel) and one or more star represented as golden dots on small images of the constellations. The radial segments are not labelled, but they are individually discussed in the text and each is associated with both an asterism and a specific stone.
- You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a star catalogue (Libros del saber de astronomia). Each of the constellations (not the 12 zodiac signs) has its own page, with its emblem in the central medallion. Each of the surrounding radial segments represent a star of the constellation, so the number of the radial items surrounding each constellation is variables. The radial items are short paragraphs or text, with no illustrations.
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - -JKP- - 01-09-2018
That's the one I was thinking of... the one Marco posted bottom left. Reg.Lat.1283 (couldn't remember if it was Greek or Latin, it's a while since I've looked at it).
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Koen G - 01-09-2018
Thanks, Marco! You are right, I think especially the Alphonsine MSS are better matches, taking the theme into account.
And how could I forget about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. which has three tiers of figures, one containing naked "nymphs".
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - Koen G - 09-09-2018
In case anyone is still interested, this motif is called ›Tanz der Untugenden‹
It is as far as I know only found in illustrations of the Welscher Gast.
From other MSS:
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The Welscher Gast MSS remind me a bit of the Sachsenspiegel, with figures interacting with symbolic objects in certain ways. In a way it could be considered a moral counterpart to the Spiegels' legal theme.
RE: Thomasin von Zirclaere, Cod. Guelf. 37.19 Aug. 2° - bi3mw - 09-09-2018
@Koen: I would be interested in what the 16 vices are. Unfortunately I can not read all. - They would have to be the counterparts of 16 virtues, right?
Edit: The vices are displayed by pressing the button on the top right (ger.):
Raub
Unrecht
Unbeständigkeit
Betrügerei
Wucher
Kargheit
Lüge
Übermut
Neid
Zorn
Maßlosigkeit
Gewalt
Trinklust
Selbstruhm
Hurerei
Gier