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+--- Thread: [Book] Unraveling the Voynich Codex (/thread-2388.html)
RE: Unraveling the Voynich Codex - ReneZ - 28-08-2018
(28-08-2018, 10:50 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If they don't like being contradicted by non-botanists, why are they standing by their identifications of crayfish, fish and cats? They are botanists, not fish and cat experts. They can't have it both ways.
Of course I agree with your and everyone else's objections to this work, but I can add that the animal identifications are primarily based on the work of a Purdue wildlife zoologist.
RE: Unraveling the Voynich Codex - DONJCH - 28-08-2018
(28-08-2018, 01:27 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. The authors are claiming that the following shape from "florid Spanish signatures" on Osuma f 13v inspired Voynichese p:
p
Tucker and Janick then make this statement, based on shapes that they may not realize are commonly found in medieval manuscripts but which they are specifically picking out of MesoAmerican texts...
"We thus conclude that the author of the Voynich Codex made up his syllabary/alphabet, and the letters were borrowed from contemporary post-Conquest MesoAmerican manuscripts such as the Codex Osuma."
JKP, don't worry, we all agree with you I think and you make your points very well as always.
Just wanted to point out that the example of the Eva p precursor character that you and Koen and Marco found in the litiera oblongata thread was much better and more plausible than this one. As you pointed out, the loop on the right that nobody mentions...
RE: Unraveling the Voynich Codex - -JKP- - 28-08-2018
(28-08-2018, 03:13 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(28-08-2018, 10:50 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If they don't like being contradicted by non-botanists, why are they standing by their identifications of crayfish, fish and cats? They are botanists, not fish and cat experts. They can't have it both ways.
Of course I agree with your and everyone else's objections to this work, but I can add that the animal identifications are primarily based on the work of a Purdue wildlife zoologist.
That is really scary. It makes you wonder how much "scholarly" work that has been published is based on similar suppositions.
What did they do, go to the zoologist and say, "We have determined that this is a New World publication. Could you please confirm our wildlife identifications?" or did they say, "Here are some drawings, can you identify anything here?" The way questions are asked often influences the answer.
RE: Unraveling the Voynich Codex - ReneZ - 29-08-2018
Koen should be able to tell if she is acknowledged in the book.
RE: Unraveling the Voynich Codex - doranchak - 29-08-2018
From Page x. in the foreward:
Quote:The paper was generally treated with hostility by many members of the Voynich internet community, but received congratulations from academics. It proved a revelation to Janick, who had had minor contact with the Voynich Codex, first from a graduate student, Angela Catalina Ghionea, who was seeking advice for her doctoral thesis on magic and science, and later by Professor Lincoln Taiz, who submitted a manuscript on Voynich to Janick, who served as science editor for Chronica Horticulturae. Tucker’s HerbalGram paper was immediately grasped by Janick as a breakthrough and a collaboration was formed that later included Fernando Moreira, a Canadian linguist, and Elizabeth A. Flaherty, a wildlife zoologist at Purdue University. The present book is based on this collaboration.
RE: Unraveling the Voynich Codex - Anton - 29-08-2018
One more fundamental mistake, I'm sorry to say - to interpret critique as hostility.
Let alone it's not correct to contrapose internet community to academics, since for sure nowadays many academics enjoy internet no less than other people.
RE: Unraveling the Voynich Codex - Koen G - 29-08-2018
Exactly, Anton. The adult thing to do would be to address and obliterate the points of criticism. Here the amateur community is just pitted against academics in less releant fields.
RE: Unraveling the Voynich Codex - davidjackson - 29-08-2018
Quote:The authors are claiming that the following shape from "florid Spanish signatures" on Osuma f 13v inspired Voynichese p:I'm sorry, that's just nonsense. You're trying to tell me that no other language has a 'florid signature' ? Or that Spanish uniquely used to have a stylistic convention in signatures that led to this symbol being commonly accepted ?
I've certainly never picked up on this 'symbol' in all of the many Spanish early documents I've seen. Following this logic to its conclusion, at could claim that we have identified the inspiration for the book - we just look to find an influential Spaniard with this signature. We could even link it to Fernando, his signature has a similar style - could be a family joke upon Rudolph!
JKP has linked it to far more convincing - and earlier - Latin stylistic conventions which are far more likely to have been the inspiration.
The' journal of voynich studies ' once ran a similar claim that the only voynich glyph outside the corpus had been identified in a document. It turned out to be a florid f seen through the reverse of the document scan. This seems to be much the same.
RE: Unraveling the Voynich Codex - -JKP- - 29-08-2018
I was looking at Flaherty's You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and it appears that her main focus is ecology and the interaction of wildlife with their environment.
Under "Manuscripts in Progress", it lists Flaherty, E.A., J. Janick, and A. Tucker. In prep. Animals of the Voynich Manuscript.
Her name is first on this paper, so she does appear to have a certain commitment to the project.
Well, I don't care actually. What matters is dedication to genuine research, commitment to standards, and pursuit of the truth and starting from a theory and then forcing the data to conform to it is not science.
RE: Unraveling the Voynich Codex - -JKP- - 30-08-2018
I was looking through the summary "conclusions" chart at the beginning of the Tucker, Janick book and I think Stephen Bax is unfairly represented.
I didn't agree with Bax on very much and I said so, because I feel it's important to debate research specifics if they don't hold up to scrutiny. How else do you get things moving in the right direction?
But, I also believe in being fair and I don't think the citation on Bax is fair.
The authors chose to represent him only in terms of "Incorrect plant identifications". Bax's focus was not plants. He only identified about three (one of which was a prior identification by other researchers that most people agreed on). The majority of Bax's research was linguistic, which is not even mentioned. It would have been better to leave him out altogether than to imply that he spent significant time identifying plants and did it wrongly. It greatly mischaracterizes his academic focus and findings.