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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 27-12-2022
(26-12-2022, 04:31 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In relation to the flowers of the VM, I do not believe that the colors were applied without an intention. More than half of the flowers are blue.
It is true that the color blue is relatively common in the upper parts of the plants. Blue and green are generally frequent colors in the manuscript. So one can speculate if the color choice is supposed to say something. In my opinion this is even very likely ( see Quire 13 ), but what the statement is remains unclear. Also open in this context is the question whether the VMS was worked on by only one illustrator or whether there were several, like the scribes. Some plant representations seem to me "coarser" than others, but the nymphs are quite homogeneous.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 27-12-2022
The matter of intent is either to explain or to deceive. To deceive is to convey 'hidden' information. Sometimes it is hidden by the dust of history, but the VMs artist clearly contributes by means of visual parodies from the cosmos to the zodiac sequence, particularly in White Aries.
Does color have significance in a medieval investigation from our C-14 perspective? And where does color have significance from this perspective? In heraldry, which is historically well-established at that time, color is an essential factor for heraldic identification. If the color used in this identification were otherwise unique in the rest of the text, this would seem to promote further investigation of the potential for a heraldic identification. If it was the artist's desire that this identification should be better hidden and less obvious, what is the only option?? More paint! Use the same color throughout the text. In this case the color is blue. The blue stripes of the Fieschi coat-of-arms are historically tied to the origin of a church tradition.
This is confirmed by the nymphs of VMs White Aries, particularly by the one nymph that has both the blue stripes and the red galero - the cardinal's hat. The problem of visual interpretation should not be based on appearance but on the capacity to transmit the artist's intent. Ambiguity is clearly present where dualistic interpretations are presented in the illustrations. Some deception is selectively used by the artist. At the same time, multiple systems of structural affirmation are built into the White Aries illustration and beyond. The stripes must be blue.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 28-12-2022
R. Sale, again you use my thread to tell your theory.
Let's each stay with our own madness!
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 28-12-2022
My response was in regard to what you posted about the VMs artist's "intentions" and the "use of color" in the text. I specifically referenced both of those topics in my reply. I could just say that I disagree, but that is rather pointless when no reasons are provided. So, I have briefly suggested an alternative perspective. I believe that this is acceptable under the forum guidelines.
You keep repeating that this is "my thread", as if the thread somehow "belongs" to you, and while you did initiate this discussion, the idea of 'possession' or 'regulation' by you is a step too far. All threads are open to relevant discussion be it either confirmation or contradiction.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 30-12-2022
One of the most interesting observations that Mary D'Imperio made in her work The Voynich Manuscript: An Elegant Enigma is the description that she made of the way in which the plants are drawn and its connection with other elements of the book such as the pipes in Quire 13 and the jars in the pharmacological section.
D'Imperio said that the plant parts have a curious blocky, chunky, rough-hewn look. She summed up her impression by saying that the plants appeared to be molded out of plastic. For her, the drawings of both the plants and the pipes and jars seemed deliberately mechanical, artificial. The author had intentionally given them that look.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 30-12-2022
Deliberate, mechanical, artificial and tricky. I'll take it! That's exactly what is going on. Not to mention a bit of obfuscation and a lot of historical loss of contact with the relevant issues or memes coincident with C-14 dating.
The VMs cosmos is a prime example. The comparison with BNF Fr. 565 and Harley 334, reveals a common structure of the three <as per E. Velinska> [[Not me, selling my own theories.]] And... there is more.
The appearance of VMs illustrations generally seems somewhat unrefined, as if it were somehow clumsy or childish. There may be a better word for it. Artificial - mechanical. Nevertheless, it is deliberate and detailed, like clockwork where it needs to be. Artistic talent may be lacking, but it is a mistake to presume the VMs artist's perspective was similarly restricted.
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 31-12-2022
(30-12-2022, 09:35 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. D'Imperio said that the plant parts have a curious blocky, chunky, rough-hewn look.Yes, but the plants do not appear to me uniformly roughly drawn, but different. Here is an example from Quire 2 ( You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ) to show what I mean.
It's not that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is the more delicate plant, but that the leaves have a clean outline and are neatly colored. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. seems rather hasty and imprecise, especially in the middle part.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 05-01-2023
Mary D'Imperio saw in the Voynich drawings: plants, pipes and jars, a unit of style that for her must have some symbolic meaning. She suggested that the draftsman of the pictures was more accustomed to, and interested in, making mechanical or structural sketches than in illustrating natural objects.
This suggestion seems very relevant to me because it relates the Voynich to the work of engineers of the time such as Giovanni Fontana.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 09-01-2023
We see the female figures in the pipes. They are supposed to go down them. You have to imagine these same figures in the stems and roots of the plants and in the jars.
In my opinion it is the most consistent interpretation with what we see. An iconographic interpretation that relates all parts of the book.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 10-01-2023
(31-12-2022, 10:46 AM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(30-12-2022, 09:35 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. D'Imperio said that the plant parts have a curious blocky, chunky, rough-hewn look.Yes, but the plants do not appear to me uniformly roughly drawn, but different. Here is an example from Quire 2 ( You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ) to show what I mean.
It's not that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is the more delicate plant, but that the leaves have a clean outline and are neatly colored. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. seems rather hasty and imprecise, especially in the middle part.
Depending on what you think the plants are, i suppose, but if f9v is viola and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a banana then one is more delicate, and one is more rough hewn and chunky.