+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 13-08-2022
I am seduced by the idea that the flowers we see in the Voynich are the flowers of the earthly paradise, perfectly unknown to humanity. This idea is greatly reinforced by the image of the Rosettes, where the walled city that we see can be interpreted as the heavenly city, the new Jerusalem, or the earthly paradise.
Koen and Cary have a brilliant thread with the idea of the Rosettes as the new Jerusalem. But this concept is confused in the medieval mind with that of the earthly paradise. Paradise is walled and full of flowers, as we see in the painting that I put in the previous post.
But what reinforces the idea even more are the precious containers of the central Rosette, similar to some that we see in the so-called pharmacological section. These containers collect the fragrance of these heavenly flowers.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 13-08-2022
I agree that one possibility for the VM plants collection is some thought of a return to paradise when the New Earth is established at the end of times. An undoing of the fall from grace, in a way.
We see this approach to the End of Times in the Ghent Altarpiece, made in the same period as the VM. This shows that additional explanation is needed though: the plants in the Ghent Altarpiece are lifelike and recognizable, not weird at all. Why would the VM put a bunch of unusual plants in Paradise - be it before or after the fall? Is there any tradition describing or naming the plants of paradise, and are those different from the plants we know?
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 14-08-2022
Looking for costmary and found this list. The interpretation of plants as essences is interesting. Has some of the same plants as the VMs, but not how far that goes.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 15-08-2022
Constructing an iconographic theory of the VM requires, in my opinion, to relate all the parts of the codex in a way that makes sense. Sense from the point of view of a cultured medieval man, without discarding the singularities that the authors of the VM could introduce.
The Ghent Altarpiece mentioned by Koen makes me think of another element that relates another of the sections of the codex. It is the fountain of life that appears in the painting, a fountain from the fifteenth century that flows water that irrigates paradise. The fountain with its tubes and pool recall the plumbing that the female figures run through in Quire 13. It seems to be an allusion to how celestial influences are what make flowers grow.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Juan_Sali - 15-08-2022
The Fountain of Life has more interpretations: a symbol referring to baptism and or eucharist You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (related with the mentioned painting of Ghent Altarpiece).
Font related with Virgin Mary:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., mainly an orthodox icon.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., destroyed by the Ottomans and rebuilt centuries later.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 15-08-2022
'River of Life' is another theme that can be applied to certain VMs illustrations, and the bathing Muses of Christine de Pizan come to mind. There is a lot of room for interpretation. However, it does seem that the number of VMs illustrations with religious and cultural interpretations is increasing. And from these, there is a growing set of interpretations that is contemporary with the VMs parchment C-14 dates.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 16-08-2022
There can be as many iconographic interpretations as researchers, but there must be an interpretation that suits the intention of the authors of the VM. For example, the bathing Muses of Christine de Pizan have nothing to do with the Voynich. Why? Because there is no relation to the other parts of the book.
I believe that any iconographic theory that is defended must respond to the premise of giving meaning to all the parts of the book. That all the VM, images and script, have a unit of meaning is for me a previous assumption. If I didn't think so, I wouldn't spend time trying to decipher it.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 16-08-2022
I would certainly agree that the creator(s) of the VMs had a determined purpose. Perhaps that could be a unit of meaning - or a unified meaning. But how is the unified meaning created? It is built of individual bricks, like the memes that were prevalent in the first half of the 15th century, let's say.
The VMs nymphs are not generic. While the majority may still be unknown, there are still those with certain qualities or possessing certain objects that potentially serve as attributes. Once the objects are correctly named and the relevant history is known, those nymphs can be identified.
From Melusine to Pizan's muses, from Colette of Corbie to Philomela, from the Fieschi popes to Lady Bertilak, the interpretations are contained in the illustrations, once the relevant historical information is rediscovered. And that history matches well with the VMs C-14 dates.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 17-08-2022
Einstein said that imagination is more important than knowledge. I'm not sure about it, but I do know that the imagination can be like a runaway horse.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 17-08-2022
Surely Einstein was correct. And perhaps, you are both, if imagination is 'unbridled'. Melusine is a clear example of artistic trickery. Same with the VMs cosmos, White Aries, the Agnus Dei.
I say, look at the evidence, look at the details, look at the structure, and don't worry so much about the 'appearance'. Pick apart these VMs illustrations with every bit of modern knowledge at your disposal and see what you get.
Is that really Melusine in VMs f79v, where there should be just a generic, nymphy mermaid? How would Melusine be identified and who is she 'really'? Look at the historical information about Melusine mythology and the Valois connections.
There are a couple of other VMs illustrations that have Valois connections: the Oresme cosmos and the Agnus Dei.
There were suggestions, even before the C-14 dating, regarding the interpretation of the Golden Fleece. Of course, it could not be fixed as a firm identification. But it did fix a firm date. 1430 is the origin of (the Order of) the Golden Fleece. It fits inside the C-14 dates. And it ties to the Valois.
These are not the products of my imagination: Melusine, the Oresme cosmos, the Golden Fleece or the Agnus Dei. These are the interpretations of other investigators. What I say is that their interpretations are all correct, if we recognize how they can be historically interconnected from a Valois perspective. The VMs artist seems to demonstrate a familiarity with these and other elements of traditional and cultural history that came from the Valois (Burgundian) era in the 1430s.