+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 16-05-2022
It is incredible how much nonsense has been said and is being said about the Voynich. There are crazy theories for all tastes.
I do not rule out that my theory is also crazy, but I can promise that I maintain it in good faith. I want to believe that everyone who maintains a theory about the VM does so in good faith.
I am old enough and have common sense not to take my theory for granted until it is validated by the members of this forum, where are the people who know something about this. In my favor, I can say that I do not have any website, I do not write books or make videos. I do nothing but write in this forum.
If one day I manage to convince the people on this forum for whom I have great respect, it will be great. And if not, nothing will happen. We will all stay as friends.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 21-05-2022
I've said it before but it seems important to remember it. The only thing I do is put all the pieces together and give them a meaning, but the pieces were already put in place by the great researchers of the 20th century.
I explain:
--Like Panofsky, I believe that the misnamed nymphs are astral spirits, so there is no biological or balneological section in the VM.
--Like Mary D' Imperio, I think the script is a mix of astrological symbols and ancient Arabic numerals. She added alchemical symbols, but in reality these are confused with astrological ones. She also added Latin abbreviations, and I can even agree because it is as if they had been used for another purpose than linguistics.
--Like Friedman and Tiltman, I also believe that the script is an artificial language invented. The only difference is that I think it is an iconic code and not a phonetic one.
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 21-05-2022
(21-05-2022, 04:31 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.--Like Friedman and Tiltman, I also believe that the script is an artificial language invented. The only difference is that I think it is an iconic code and not a phonetic one.
William Friedman left an anagram whose solution was named by his wife:
"The Voynich Manuscript was an early attempt to construct an artificial or universal language of the A-Priori type.-Friedman."
This suggests that Friedman meant a constructed language, not an artificial language by today's definition:
"A-priori languages are invented from scratch. They follow, for example, a philosophical system that is supposed to describe or classify the world in a culturally neutral way. Symbols are adopted from existing languages or scripts for graphical representation."
So it's not so much about a code, but a construction of language.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 22-05-2022
You are right in a narrow sense but I speak in a broad sense. Thinking about the Voynich, what Friedman had in mind was something similar to the universal languages imagined in the 17th century. Naturally it was something anachronistic, but he was right to think so.
In the language devised by John Wilkins in Essay towards a Real Character and a Philosophical Language (1668) each one of the letters of each one of the words had to be significant. This has nothing to do with the arbitrariness of Saussure's linguistic sign or with the double articulation of language.
Friedman therefore believed in the meaning of each of the VM glyphs. And that's what I think, since I consider them symbols full of meaning
RE: No text, but a visual code - tavie - 22-05-2022
(22-05-2022, 08:39 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Friedman therefore believed in the meaning of each of the VM glyphs. And that's what I think, since I consider them symbols full of meaning
Friedman thought there was linguistic meaning in the glyphs but your theory is that there is no linguistic meaning.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 22-05-2022
Yes, as I said, Friedman believed that the Voynich script could be a primitive constructed universal philosophical language. I do not think so.
Why did he believe that? Because of the repetitive nature of glyphs and glyph chains. That made him think that each glyph could have meaning and refer to a certain field of ideas. As in the language devised by Wilkins in the seventeenth century, each letter had to be significant.
My theory differs because I think that there are no letters in the Voynich but rather symbols, pictograms. But I think like Friedman that each glyph is significant, whether it is a constructed language or an equally constructed iconic code.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 29-05-2022
There is an interesting discussion in another thread about the authenticity of the Voynich, if it could be fake. That something like this continues to occur demonstrates the real danger of a genuine and precious piece of human culture being lost.
In our world having faith in science is vital. We have seen it with the pandemic. Having faith in vaccines has saved millions of lives around the world. Having faith in science also means believing in the C-14 dating system that has been able to demonstrate that the Voynich is a human product from the first half of the fifteenth century.
Having faith in science also means not only believing that better computers will help us crack the VM but that our better knowledge of astrology and magic in the 15th century will help us understand why this precious codex was made.
RE: No text, but a visual code - davidjackson - 29-05-2022
(29-05-2022, 09:12 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In our world having faith in science is vital. We have seen it with the pandemic. Having faith in vaccines has saved millions of lives around the world. Having faith in science also means believing in the C-14 dating system that has been able to demonstrate that the Voynich is a human product from the first half of the fifteenth century.In defense of Rich S, he's not arguing against the C14 dating. He's arguing that the parchment is genuine medieval stuff, from no particular time period, but that it was used in modern times to create a fake.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 29-05-2022
The clarification is fine because I don't know Rich S's theory in detail. But I think that in that thread Lisa Fagin Davis has provided enough reasons to reject that theory.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 02-06-2022
If you go to Google Scholar to see what there is about the Voynich you will see that almost everything published there refers to the script. It is disappointing for someone like me who thinks that the script will not be understood until a correct iconographic reading is made of the images of the codex.
Fortunately, I have found an article written by Lincoln Taiz and Sandra Lee Taiz in 2011 in which they treat the biological section of the Voynich, Quire13, as the medieval way of looking at plant physiology. His approach is not new because Mary D'Imperio already pointed to the design coincidences between the pipes through which the female figures slide and the well-modeled stems of the herbs. For these authors as for D'Imperio, the green liquid in which the figures are bathed could represent the sap of plants.
What most caught my attention in the article was the reference to the classic work De Plantis and its influence on medieval authors such as Roger Bacon and Albertus Magnus.
The authors relate the biological section and the herbarium with the cosmological and zodiacal sections saying that: It is stated in 'De Plantis' that each plant germinates and grows according to its star.
I already mentioned two medieval authors who related each herb to a star. The authors see in the female figures, according to Aristotle, the soul of the plants. For me they are the spirit of the stars.