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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - nablator - 23-12-2018
(15-12-2018, 10:38 PM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I may be wrong, but I think in Europe the circumpunct for the Sun is a later, Renaissance creation.
It looks like they had a symbol in this astrology treatise, sort of heart-shaped with a hook below, on this page and the following pages: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
BNF Fr. 1354, 15th century You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Someone added the sun symbol (circle with a dot) in a gray ink later.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 28-12-2018
I would like to explore an idea of Emma and Marco about the glyph (EVA-sh) and the different shapes of its plume or topstroke. Emma wrote that a word ending (EVA-e) looks like it is missing something from the end and that something seems to have been moved over to the (sh). She calls this an insight or a feeling.
JKP wrote that not only is important the several forms of the plume or cap, but also the way it is connected with (ch), an idea shared by Anton and Wladimir who said that the attachment point matters.
For me the symbol (sh) is one of those which express well the idea of movement. Like the arrow (q) going up to the left leg of (t) or (p), like the one (i), two (ii) and three (iii), or the same with (e), (ee), (eee), like the (ch) next to the gallows moving below them. All the script is moving. This is an essential idea: the string of glyphs moves. And it moves because it was generated with a Volvelle with at least three rotatory discs. It does not move at random but following some rules. I think they are some rules of the movements in the sky.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 01-01-2019
If you have a look to medieval Volvelles on the internet you will see that the pointer of the discs of the Sun and the Moon usually have the same shape of an arrowhead. I'm convinced that the Eva-q with its shape of arrowhead is in fact a pointer, a symbol of movement. That is the reason of the lack of q-words in the labels of the Voynich.
Almost always the arrowhead is the start of a 'word' because is in the outer ring of the Volvelle with which was generated the 'text'. What the q does is to place the rest of the elements in the celestial sphere. Usually goes before the (o), symbol of the grade (one of the 360º) which serves for marking the position of an specific star, but it can precedes another symbol like that of the Moon (Eva-e).
The arrowhead marks the orto of the an celestial objet on the horizon and I think also marks the noon at the top of the Volvelle, hence the left leg of Eva-t is an arrowhead too.
Happy new year
Feliz año nuevo
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 05-01-2019
I just read the post Birth of a new mythology in the blog of Rich SantaColuma, who defends for years that the VM is a fake, a forgery created by Wilfrid Voynich. Like all opinions it is a respectable one, although I'm sorry for the poor Voynich, who already suffered in life deported in Siberia and he (his memory) continues to suffer after death.
For me, there are so many reasons for defending that the VM is not only genuine but meaningful too, that it amazes me someone thinks otherwise. Quoting Francis Bacon, SantaColuma says that we are victims of the idols of the cave. But I think he is also victim of another idol of Bacon, the idols of the marketplace: the use of words to mislead.
This year is the 50th anniversary of man's arrival to the Moon. I'm sure many people will say again is a fake, like there are people still believe the Earth is flat. Science has to fight against myths. And the people who create these myths usually argue that it is the others who create them.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 26-01-2019
I'm every time more convinced that all the attempts of deciphering the Voynich have failed for trying to alphabetize the glyphs. Doing a transcription of them is to apply a scientific method that is not correct for a cultural product of its time. That is for me an huge prejudice. We have to think in the Zodiac Man. This well known image linked the stars with the human body without words. It was a non-verbal language. Learned people understand what it meant.
The Voynich, first of all, is a philosophical problem. First, we have to understand the mentality of learned people from XV century. They didn't need words, only a way of linking the macrocosmos with the microcosmos, the stars with the herbs, and this way is a string of symbols. There is something magic in it, but this magical thinking is part of their mentality.
Sorry if I'm stubborn in this idea, but is a fundamental idea: No letters, no words, no sounds. The Voynich is a mute, silent script. Only for the eyes.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 26-01-2019
(26-01-2019, 09:48 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The Voynich is a mute, silent script. Only for the eyes.Kind of like mathematics?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Common_Man - 26-01-2019
I think you've has made your point clear already.. Now work further and maybe try to derive something out of the manuscript that can substantiate/disprove the idea.. Otherwise the idea is as good as any..
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 27-01-2019
You are right Common_Man, but unravel the string of glyphs is not an easy thing. However, there are some clues about the meaning of some symbols that point to an astronomical code. One of the clarest hint is the glyph EVA-i, although I prefer to say the leaned stripe because it's not a letter.
We see this leaned stripe in mechanical artifacts from the time of the Voynich like volvelles and astrolabes. It's a mark for one grade of the celestial sphere. In the imagery of the manuscript we see it in groups of three and in the script we see 'words' of one, two and up to three stripes. Each stripe stands for 15º, one kardaga, a medieval measure for the sphere.
In the script there are dain,daiin and daiiin and they are different positions in the sphere (sorry, I don't know how to put the glyphs with the keyboard). The d it's not a d. It's the number 8 and stands for a sector of the sphere. The a it's not an a, but represents a star, and n it's not a letter either. Maybe its curved shape is iconic and simply serves to close the string.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 09-02-2019
I've been thinking in something JKP has often insisted: the resemblance of VM glyphs with Latin letters and scribal abbreviation conventions. He's right and some glyphs seem to follow these conventions in shape and position. If we think that the scribe was trained in Latin script is logical that he translated his habits to the new invented script to make it look more scientific. Latin was the language of the science and the Voynich is a scientific book.
As JKP has also said, scribal abbreviations were used in all mayor european languages not only Latin. So what the scribe did was to use them in a new language, one I think is a non-verbal language. How do I believe there aren't any letters in the VM script, I don't think the abbreviations substitute letters or syllables. What some of them do is to replace others glyphs. Par example, the 9-like glyph (EVA-y) substitute (o) and (a) because they have complementary functions. And all the three glyphs stand for the grade of the sphere.
For me the nine in a row (o) of the outer ring of f70r1 is a decisive clue. (o) it's not a letter, it's a grade of the sphere, and what the author of VM did was to put the different position of the Sun, Moon and stars moving in a Volvelle in a running script.
RE: No text, but a visual code - VViews - 10-02-2019
(09-02-2019, 09:58 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For me the nine in a row (o) of the outer ring of f70r1 is a decisive clue.
This series of o's is something that really puzzles me, although I am tempted to rather think that it points to the possibility of o being a null character.