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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 25-10-2021
I don't remember where I wrote that, but it probably has to do with this quote I made from ReneZ:
The following symbols: q f p m y are demonstrably not to be identified with letters.
That's five out of (say) 25. How confident can one be that the others are?
And even if they are, what to make of a mixture of letters and non-letters?
Later ReneZ specified:
To keep this in the right context, what I meant is: they are not letters, but they could be, among other things:
Parts of letters (even diacritics)
Variant forms of letters
I wrote what you bi3mw quote because I suppose that many people who have studied the VM for many years will agree with ReneZ
I also think that they are not letters but for another reason
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 05-11-2021
I think it is useful to remember what was the core of medieval philosophy, which for me is essential to interpret the VM. It is the idea of Aristotle according to which if the starry sky stopped moving, all life on Earth would cease.
I think keeping this idea in mind helps to understand why we find a book full of herbs and also full of cosmological diagrams with stars. Everything has an intimate relationship and the message of the book is homogeneous.
The script is for me only a consequence of this overview, a set of symbols that relates the two worlds, the macrocosm and the microcosm.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 09-11-2021
Why do the glyphs of the VM have to be sounds, phonemes that are pronounced? That is a logical assumption since this is usually the case when we find what looks like text. But, is it text what we see in the VM? No one has been able to prove it so far.
What if everything is nothing more than sets of pictograms like the zodiac symbols?
Look at the zodiac symbols
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These pictograms reflect an idea, a concept beyond language. They are not phonemes, you can't pronounce them but you know right away what they mean. I think the VM glyphs are exactly the same: astronomical symbols
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 13-11-2021
I think it is interesting to know that the invention of the zodiacal symbols are contemporaneous with the Voynich. This may come as a surprise to many, because the signs or zodiacal representations are of ancient origin.
In fact, in the Voynich we see the drawings in the zodiacal section but not the symbols that did not yet exist. I at least have not seen them in manuscripts of the first half of the fifteenth century. I have seen these symbols in the second half of that century, in incunabula, for example, as if they were invented to save letters in printed books.
What I mean by this? That the fifteenth century is a period of invention of astronomical symbols and that makes possible a non-linguistic script like that of the Voynich
RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 13-11-2021
I don't understand your statement, or question.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 14-11-2021
It's easy to understand Aga. What you have put are the drawings of the zodiacal signs, which are of ancient origin. What I am talking about is the symbols, the pictograms, which were invented in the 15th century.
So that there is no confusion I put the symbols again
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The Voynich in all probability belongs to the first half of the 15th century, but these symbols or pictograms were invented in the second half of that century. That's why we don't see them in the VM.
But what is relevant is that it is a time of innovation in which astronomical symbols were created
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 21-11-2021
Not only the zodiacal symbols, but also the planetary symbols acquired their definitive standardization at the time of the Voynich.
Here you can see the historical evolution of planetary symbols
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The idea I want to convey is that the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries are a flourishing period of astronomical symbols created by astrologers to read the message of the stars.
Is that relevant when interpreting the VM script? I think so and a lot. Because the only way to penetrate the mystery is by knowing more and more the culture and the historical context
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 26-11-2021
If I have a deep conviction, it is that the script and the imagery of Voynich form an indissoluble unit. A rare script corresponds to images no less rare. Given the failure to understand the script for decades, the only chance to ever understand this original medieval book is by understanding its illustrations. The script is only the consequence of the message that the images convey.
Is it possible to know what the images say, not one of them but all together, the whole message? I think so, but first one of the most ingrained prejudices must disappear. In the VM there are no naked women, there is no biological or balneological section. None of that exists. The only thing there is are only personifications of heavenly influences, of the virtue of the stars. It is the only iconographic reading consistent with the rest of the book and with its time, in which this kind of personification was common.
Once the prejudice has disappeared, a giant step will have been taken to understand the Voynich.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 01-12-2021
I usually put this image (f70r1) from time to time. For me it is the clue that the criminal left to solve the crime
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What we see is: ooooooooo
This is already suspicious, but you might think that it is just an ornament in the circle. What is really shocking and surprising is that next and in the same circle we see the o's mixed with other glyphs of the VM script. Throughout the book there is no greater proof that this is not a linguistic system but to something else.
Obviously, what that o means is the symbol of the degree of the sphere
RE: No text, but a visual code - RenegadeHealer - 01-12-2021
(01-12-2021, 09:06 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I usually put this image (f70r1) from time to time. For me it is the clue that the criminal left to solve the crime
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What we see is: ooooooooo
This is already suspicious, but you might think that it is just an ornament in the circle. What is really shocking and surprising is that next and in the same circle we see the o's mixed with other glyphs of the VM script. Throughout the book there is no greater proof that this is not a linguistic system but to something else.
Obviously, what that o means is the symbol of the degree of the sphere
Hi Antonio. Ellie Velinska, in one of her blog posts, was the first to draw my attention to the striking parallel between the ooooooooo on the rim of the roundel on f70r1, and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Obviously Trithemius and his work postdate the typically assumed dates of the VMs's composition by a small but significant amount of time. But could they have both had a common influence? JKP has written about this ooooooooo also, and sees a close parallel in the pseudo-text, usually tapering down to dots at at least one end, used to decorate roundels and mandorlas in earlier medieval manuscripts.