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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 03-10-2021
Could the so-called script be a consequence of the underlying message in the imagery? I think so
And what do the images say?
In this regard, the most important thing is to determine if the VM is homogeneous, if the illustrations convey one and the same message. I believe that the simplest reading and the one that follows from what we see is that the heavenly influence has a preponderant role in the existence of the medicinal herbs.
With this iconographic reading, the so-called script may not be anything other than a set of astronomical symbols arranged in what appear to be words, but in reality they only have a visual sense. The only thing to find out is what each symbol means
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 03-10-2021
(20-09-2021, 02:56 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Is this little dragon that seems to have been created by Walt Disney real?
Of course not. It is a creation of the powerful imagination of the author of the Voynich, like everything else in the book. He used his imagination to explore the hidden powers of nature, the science of his time.
Did he believe that there could be in that wide world that did not know dragons and herbs like the ones he drew?
This is the big question and where I think you have to start investigating the Voynich
Is it real? It is real in the sense that it is a drawing of a dragonlike creature on parchment. Did the creature exist in real life? Not likely. Did it exist as another drawing in some other manuscript? Possibly. It might not be a creation per se, but a copy, or a reference thereto.
Did the artist believe dragons were real? Not necessarily, as he did not draw it to scale, but rather as a tiny addition to a drawing of a plant. To me this puts it in a mnemonic framework, invoking something about the mythology of dragons with regard to the plant. It may mean the plant burns in some way, to touch it or to taste it, or is otherwise dangerous or related to dragon lore in some way, name similar, etc. Or it may simply have been copied from a prior drawing which was intended to convey similar meaning, without the artist knowing what plant it was or what the reference was.
I do not think they drew the dragon to convince people they exist, it is not necessary for them to exist to refer to them.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 04-10-2021
What I wanted to say is that in medieval bestiaries the line between mythological monsters and real animals is blurred. Let's see this image of a confrontation between an elephant and a dragon
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No one had even seen a dragon, but surely the vast majority of the readers of this manuscript had ever seen an elephant.
What was more real, a mermaid or a whale? For them it was the same: mysterious animals that lived in remotes places.
That is why I think that for those who drew the fantastic Voynich herbs they were plants that could be real and grow somewhere in the world
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 05-10-2021
Quote:In the VM herbs are invented. They have no names and nothing can be said about them. The script we see is just a simulated language
What you said in the message above seems more agreeable than the above quote from post #645. Have you changed your stance?
But on the issue of real or not, take that example you just gave of the elephant and dragon. Once you have seen them portrayed, especially when it tells you specifically what they are, you will likely know an elephant or a dragon the next time you see one depicted even without explicit wordage telling you what they are, if it is similarly portrayed. It doesn't matter that you are not likely to ever see them in real life.
So, the drawings in the vms could be the same, they know them already, or what they are supposed to depict. didnt have to label them for themselves.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 06-10-2021
I still think that the VM herbs are the author's creations, regardless of whether he thinks they may exist or not. Therefore, the herbs don't have names and nothing can be said about them.
The so-called script is just a simulated language, which is not so say that it does not make sense. I believe that they are groups of astronomical symbols, which does not make sense for us, but it does for medieval man.
To understand this I think it is useful to reflect on the image of the zodiac man, one of the most widespread images of the time.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 12-10-2021
Actually, I agree with what the last century said about the script W. Friedman, one of the people who spent the most time researching the VM.
He said it was a kind of artificial or synthetic language and that is what I believe too. Only for me it is not a phonetic language but an iconic code. The code is based on celestial objects and movements
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 18-10-2021
I would like to talk again about the little dragon, that adorable creature that looks like it was drawn by Walt Disney. Just like the lovely naked ladies, I think these figures say a lot about the intention of the VM authors.
A festive, happy, playful spirit is perceived. Actually all the imagery conveys the idea of play, from the fantastical herbs to the curious cosmological representations. This approach is important because it is also applicable to the script, which I think is also a fun game.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 20-10-2021
I have not invented my iconographic reading of the VM. I have simply deduced it from medieval culture. You just have to read the Speculum Majus, one of the most widely used medieval encyclopedias, by Friar Vincent de Beauvais. One of its parts, Speculum Naturale says:
Some have said that there is no herb on earth which has not a star in the sky, which is concerned for it and causes it to grow.
In my opinion, this phrase fits like a glove to what we see in the Voynich.
As I have said once, all we need is to delve into medieval culture because VM is a genuine and original product of that culture.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 25-10-2021
The so-called Recipe section is for me the best example that the VM is a genuine medieval work, not a hoax. Why would anyone write more than 20 pages of what looks like text?
You can see that under this tangle of chained glyphs there is an intention, the will to transmit something, whatever
For me this section illustrates very well the medieval thought expressed in Vincent de Beauvais's encyclopedia: a star for a herb.
You can argue: well, I see the star but not the plant.
What I believe is that each paragraph of glyphs attached to a star is a way of identifying that particular star through astronomical symbols, and that any herb corresponds to the identification of that star. In fact, the drawing of the stars in the Recipe section can be mistaken for a flower.
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 25-10-2021
(14-07-2018, 03:52 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I've read that many of you think that gallows and other glyphs cannot be mapped to a letters and I agree.
Can you reference to threads in which this claim is made ? ( link )