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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 08-07-2021
The similarity between the VM script and the code invented by the engineer Giovanni Fontana has been highlighted on several occasions. Fontana and the authors of the Voynich are rigorously contemporary, breathe the same cultural atmosphere.
The fact is that with its code Fontana did not intend to hide anything. He first writes phrases or words in Latin that make it very easy to crack the code. It is speculated that the engineer considered the code a symbolic writing system that conferred particular significance on the contents. It is quite possible that he wanted to emulate magicians and their cryptic language. He could do the same by mechanical instruments.
Why are there no phrases or words in Latin in the VM that help to decipher the script? Perhaps because Latin words are not necessary and it is an iconic system so simple that it had no secrets for those who knew and used it
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 17-07-2021
If I had to highlight a characteristic of the VM script I would say that it moves, the glyph strings move!
To see it as I see it, forget that you are dealing with a language. If you see a chain of glyphs repeated two or three times, it is not that the same word is repeated in the text, but rather that the chain of glyphs has moved and is moving to the right.
That's is why we see the benches alone and also under the gallows, because they move. Also when you reach the end of a line, you start over. It's like spinning around. Line as a functional unit (LAAFU).
The clearest sign of movement are the glyphs that look like the letters i and c. When we see i, ii, iii, it is the same and only i that moves and the same with c, cc, ccc. There are no three c's. There is only one.
The VM script reproduces the movement of objects in the sky
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 24-07-2021
It is reasonable to think that if we could read the script we could interpret the illustrations. I believe however that it is the other way around. It is easier to try to understand the imagery to be able to know what the script is.
The Voynich is a genuine 15th century cultural product of great importance, but the cultural institution that owns it does little to investigate its content. It is my opinion that a University as prestigious as Yale could do much more.
For example, the opinion of Erwin Panofsky, one of the greatest experts in iconology, has been known for many years. He said that the naked ladies in the VM were astral spirits. Yale has done nothing to spread the views of this great professional in the History of Art. On the contrary, it is still said that there is a biological or balneological section of the book, as is it were an incontrovertible truth.
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 24-07-2021
(24-07-2021, 06:29 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.it is still said that there is a biological or balneological section of the book, as is it were an incontrovertible truth.I would say that the division into the known sections was made only to have a classification at all. Probably nobody will take the designations of the individual sections literally. One only has a makeshift division of the sections and so can refer to them. Everyone then knows which part of the manuscript is meant. That is probably the whole point of the present division into named sections.
The only exception is probably the "herbological section". Here one could assume that the naming corresponds in the broadest sense to the actual content.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 26-07-2021
I don't agree. The designation directs thought. I'm sure that 90% or more of the members of this forum believe that there really is a biological or balneological section. If it were otherwise, many people would realize that the naked ladies are the spirit of the stars and that the VM is homogeneous and forms a unity of meaning.
Anyone who thinks that there is a biological or balneological section should know that they go against the opinion of one of the greatest experts in iconology of the 20th century
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 26-07-2021
(26-07-2021, 07:10 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't agree. The designation directs thought. I'm sure that 90% or more of the members of this forum believe that there really is a biological or balneological section.Well, one can have a different opinion about that. For example, it is not clear to me what a "biological section" is supposed to be. One can imagine all sorts of things, rather vaguely.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 31-07-2021
Everyone can imagine what they want, of course. The only thing I do is inform anyone who looks at this forum for the first time of the opinion of a highly respected scientist and great connoisseur of medieval iconology. Erwin Panofsky said that there was no biological or balneological section, but that the naked ladies were astral spirits.
Why is this opinion so important? Because he relates these ladies with the ones we see in the zodiacal section holding stars and we can infer that these figures are a personification of the spirit of the stars.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 04-08-2021
Somewhere I have read that the bottom left drawing on the Rosettes page cannot be a clock because clocks did not have second hands in that time. It is one more sign of incompetence, that what is really needed to face the Voynich is a deep knowledge of medieval culture.
The drawing on the Rosettes page it's a sketch of an astronomical clock. The clock has two hands because one represents the sun and the other the moon. We can still see it on the famous Prague clock, which is contemporary with the VM, at least its oldest part.
But it's even more interesting. The hands inside the sphere form a triangle with the vertices ending in little circles. It is the same figure, a trine or trigone, that we see in f67v2, a folio that shows the planetary aspects that the sun forms with the moon. On this folio there are little heads at the vertices, one from the sun and the other two from the moon. The distance of 120 degrees to either side of the sun.
A correct iconographic reading is essential to understand the Voynich
RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 04-08-2021
(04-08-2021, 07:36 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Somewhere I have read that the bottom left drawing on the Rosettes page cannot be a clock because clocks did not have second hands in that time. It is one more sign of incompetence, that what is really needed to face the Voynich is a deep knowledge of medieval culture.
The drawing on the Rosettes page it's a sketch of an astronomical clock. The clock has two hands because one represents the sun and the other the moon. We can still see it on the famous Prague clock, which is contemporary with the VM, at least its oldest part.
I almost skimmed over this post because of its condescending tone, but this may be an interesting idea. There are some issues though:
- Why is the circle that would be Earth in the VM off centre? Earth is the centre of the universe.
- Why only eight divisions? This is expected of something like directions, but for an astronomical clock wouldn't we expect 12?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 06-08-2021
In my opinion, the clock on the Rosettes page is one of the clearest iconographic clues. In the circle there are eight divisions with three marks each, the same marks that we see in other drawings in the VM and even within some gallows. It is simply a representation of time, the passing of hours. Each mark is 5 degrees, three marks 15 degrees, which is the same as one hour.
The entire Rosettes page is a representation of the medieval universe, as Mary D'Imperio brilliantly suggested. The spheres are unfolded because to represent the concentric spheres, one inside the other, I suppose it was not an easy task for any draftsman. In the center is the sphere with the jars from which the essences come out, the virtues of the stars that make de herbs sprout and grow. The blue of the sky is the color that dominates the page.
Sorry to sound condescending but I think it's no difficult to understand this.