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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Helmut Winkler - 21-06-2021
(21-06-2021, 10:18 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's not that easy
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On the next page, above the numbers there is no wave like line, but two separate small lines, on the p (prima) there is a superscript symbol that looks like a 9, and then on the M (minutes) another two lines
Very tricky, isn't it?
No, it is not
On the next page, above the numbers there is no wave like line, but two separate small lines, THE TWO STROKES OF THE OPEN A on the p (prima) there is a superscript symbol that looks like a 9 BUT IS AN A AS WELL, and then on the M (minutes) another two lines ANOTHER A
I think the problem is that in this very small script the hairstrokes are not visible or even nonexistent
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 21-06-2021
It's amazing how easy and fast you have solved the problem
Can you explain to forum members what it means THE TWO STROKES OF THE OPEN A
Why a supercript symbol that looks like the number 9 IS AN A AS WELL
What do you mean "the hairstrokes are not visible or even nonexistent"
I think the matter deserves a detailed explanation
RE: No text, but a visual code - Helmut Winkler - 21-06-2021
The wavy line is like an open a, similar to a Visigothic a, you could say it is like a u, two minims
You have two p's with an overwritte a, in the first column it is clearly reognizable, the other example is slightly failed, it is open at the bottom and connected with the p it looks like a 9, at least with some imagination
What do you mean "the hairstrokes are not visible or even nonexistent"
I mean what I am saying "the hairstrokes, [that every letter has] are not visible or even nonexistent" [in some of these letters]
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 21-06-2021
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And in these astronomical tables, the symbol above the letters and numbers is also a Visigothic a?
They look more like two cc
RE: No text, but a visual code - Helmut Winkler - 21-06-2021
They look like an a from a Beneventana, which looks like a cc, in my opinion these a's tell us something about thee flexibility and diversity of medieval scribes and scripts
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 22-06-2021
I see you know medieval scripts, but what you say is unconvincing. Aside from the fact that it seems anachronistic, it is rare that the Beneventana script is used in an English document. And above all, why did the scribe write the text of the astronomical tables in another script?
Although the strangest thing of all is that the scribe always puts an a as a superscript abbreviation, over the S por sign, the G for degree, the M for minute, and over any number. Does that make sense?
I consider this matter of enormous importance. I don't mind giving the reason to whoever proves it. If someone else in the forum
maintains that this and the two minims abbreviation are alphabetical abbreviations try to prove it
RE: No text, but a visual code - Helmut Winkler - 22-06-2021
Your scribe did not use a Visigotica or a Beneventana, of course, some things look similar, he is using an ordinary Gothic book script. No offence meant, but I am not sure you know what you are doing or where you are going to. What is strange in a scribe using superscripts? What he is doing is ordinary usage.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 23-06-2021
Don't worry, I just try not to repeat the same things all the time in order to move forward. Let's see these astronomical tables
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Perhaps originally, the sign above the G (Gradus) and M (Minutae) was an alphabetical abbreviation, the letter a, but what seems clear is that this sign increasingly became two minims, two small stripes that may be at the origin of the symbols that we use as angular measurements.
Now we don't use letters. We use º ' '', the symbol º for degrees, ' for minutes and '' for seconds. They are minutes and seconds of arc, no time.
In A History of Mathematical Notations, by Florian Cajori, I read that the symbols for angular measurements came into use in the 16th century. But these symbols were not invented by anyone, they must have a history and what I believe is that those medieval superscript signs are in their origin.
What relationship does this have with the Voynich? Quite obvious if you think of glyphs like Eva-o, i, ii, iin and consider the whole script as a system of positions in the celestial sphere
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 27-06-2021
In these Prussian astronomical tables from the mid-sixteenth century you can see the evolution.
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There are no longer letters to designate angular measurements. There are no (M) minutes, (S) seconds, etc, but directly slanted strokes.
Very, very important: these strokes are not Roman numerals, they are marks on the sphere and that is why they are slanted.
Do not these lines recall the inclination of the Eva-i glyphs of the Voynich?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 01-07-2021
To all those who join the forum or take a look at this website out of curiosity, I want to remind you of an elementary thing: Voynich's script is not an alphabet. All transliterations of the glyphs, such as the EVA alphabet, are mere assumptions that distort what we see.
As William of Ockham would say, whoever believes that glyphs are signs of a natural language or hide an encrypted language is multiplying entities unnecessarily.
In the script we see i ii iii, but it is not the letter i repeated because the letter i was not written inclined. What we see is the same repeated slanted stroke like the markings on a sphere to indicate the degrees, as in this Volvelle
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They are the same marks that we see in the astronomical tables of the time.
Is the script then an astronomical code? This is hard to believe, but the biggest problem is that we don't know enough about 15th century culture.