+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 09-06-2021
If I say that the glyph that looks like the letter c, and others with the same shape (cc, ccc, benches) are the symbols of the Moon moving, in different positions in the sky, you can ask me with what evidence I make that statement.
Well, not that I have a very vivid imagination. I have taken that idea from looking at the imagery in the book, from the relationship with other glyphs that also seem like astronomical symbols such as the ones that appear to be the letter i and the letter o, from the structure of the script itself, from the lack of linguistic solution, from the fact of a genuine document and must have some kind of sense, that it is consistent with the mentality of the time...
You can reply: but how can we be sure, how are the sentences formed, what are the rules that govern the chains of symbols?
I do not know. I hope to know some day
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 09-06-2021
I think most of us are hoping to learn more about the VMs. Your interpretations are interesting, but there needs to be evidence of their relevance to VMs investigation. That's pretty much the situation for all of VMs investigation, determining the validity and relevance of all the various interpretations.
For me, if some interpretation is valid, then there can be certain implications and these require further examination. The concept is simple, but the VMs makes it difficult. It doesn't always work and it can be difficult to determine if the cause is innate in the data (It wasn't meant to be.) or if there are investigative omissions (facts not yet taken into account). Botanical identifications exemplify this difficulty. If an illustration is a representation of "dillweed", then in a standard herbal, the text is also concerned with "dillweed". The history of medieval herbal tradition shows that the text is often borrowed from prior sources. The attempt to establish this correspondence for even the most certain of the VMs plant identifications has not succeeded.
There are, however, a few VMs examples where this type of investigative chain can be found, if A is true, then B; if B is true, then C, and so on. They are in the cosmic and zodiac sections. Another example is the so-called VMs mermaid. The background for this representation is provided by two illustrations from Lauber. One shows a mermaid among 'sea monsters'; the other has a mermaid among 'fish'. The mermaid, like all the other creatures, is a generic representation, not a particular individual mermaid.
There is a similar illustration in Harley 334, a mermaid among fish, and Harley 334 is connected with the VMs through the investigation of the Cosmic comparison.
Is the VMs illustration a generic representation of "the mermaid and her companions" or not?
If the VMs mermaid is generic, why does she have thighs and knees? Mermaids don't have knees. If she does have knees, then this might be indicative of a transitional creature, able to change from fully human to semi-human forms. If this is a transitional creature and female, that fits quite well with the medieval myth of Melusine.
As it turns out, there are several versions of this myth which impart certain characteristics to Melusine. In the Lusignan version she is a dragon and tends to be green. In the Luxembourg version, she was more like a mermaid and favored blue. One description said her mermaid-like parts were blue with circular silver droplets of water. Take a close look at the VMs image. Doesn't that lousy slap of blue paint do a great job of hiding this identification and confirming it at the same time.
Melusine has been inserted in place of the generic mermaid. And as far as the technique of combined or inserted images, this ploy of disguise and obfuscation is also present in the cosmos and elsewhere.
The VMs mermaid is not generic, she is Melusine. And she is a specific version of Melusine. In this version, she was held to be the ancestress of the rulers of Luxembourg. And this connects directly to the Valois rulers of France, Burgundy, etc. during the C-14 dates and beyond.
As a second, simpler example, there have been certain illustrations in the VMs interpreted as representing the fleece from the medieval, knightly Order of the Golden Fleece. If this is valid, we know the Order was founded by Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy in 1430, within the C-14 dates, and that he was a descendant of the Valois family lines. So both of these items have clear Valois connections.
For me, this conveys the implication that the VMs artist has some familiarity with the C-14 current events, the "social media" of that era, has chosen to selectively use those elements, and at the same time decided to disguise, obscure, obfuscate and otherwise create ambiguities that might trick or deceive any subsequent readers who were not acquainted or adequately familiar with the relevant information. Assuming this was done for a purpose, it still remains to reveal that purpose.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 10-06-2021
Today we had a partial solar eclipse that has been seen in many places. An eclipse of the Sun or Moon can occur several times in the year.
Is there a representation of an eclipse in the VM? I think so, in the Quire 9. Folio 67r1 may represent an annular eclipse, with de Moon not entirely covering the Sun. That's why red and blue rays come out. Folio 68v1 may represent a total eclipse. Here the Moon covers the entire solar disk and there are no red rays.
It is not uncommon to see eclipses in the Voynich, since the Sun and the Moon are often drawn
The key question is: does the VM script speak of eclipses an other celestial phenomena in cipher or in some language, or does it do so through astronomical symbols?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 12-06-2021
Some glyphs of the VM script can be so simple that for that very reason it is difficult to see them. The Eva-q glyph is actually an arrowhead, a pointer that moves because we also see it above in some gallows.
Well, this glyph could simply be the pointer of a Volvelle like this:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
As we all know, Eva-q appears exclusively as a prefix and is almost always followed by Eva-o. Also, it almost never appears on labels. Is a glyph indicating movement, a pointer. Eva-o would be the degree of the sphere that moves.
The fact is that it was in the Renaissance when that symbol was adopted, a small supercript circle, to write the degrees of the sphere: 15º, 30º, 90º...
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 15-06-2021
We are approaching the summer solstice, the longest day of the year. Can this astronomical phenomenon be represented in the Voynich?
It would not be anything strange because it is a book that is half astronomical-astrological, half herbal. And in all cultures there is a tradition that links the summer solstice with magical herbs like the ones we see in the VM.
We know that the most common glyph string in the script is daiin en Eva alphabet. But we will no adulterate the script. What we see is a glyph that looks like the number 8 followed by a small circle with a slanted line that is identical to the two glyphs that follow. From the base of the last one comes a curved line forming a kind of half circle. This is what we see, not any alphabet.
I already said that, according to contemporary objects such as the Volvelles, the number 8 repeated in each quadrant can mean 16 hours of daily light in the signs of Gemini and Cancer. The small circle can be a star or even the sun, and the inclined lines with the final half cicle can be the exact position of the celestial object on the sphere.
That chain of glyphs so repeated in the VM (daiin) could therefore represent the position of the sun or a star at noon on the summer solstice, a very special position in the year.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 19-06-2021
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In these medieval astronomical tables we see in the first column the word difference in Latin. First we see it written with all the letters: differentia, and then abbreviated with a rare abbreviation, a superscript symbol that we also see on the numbers that head the following columns.
Can someone who knows more about scribal conventions tell me what this abbreviation means?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Helmut Winkler - 19-06-2021
It is a wave like line, which stands for a missing r or re or ra. In the end of a word it stands for a missing a, in fact it is an open a. A few lines down you have a nice example for another re-abbr. looking like a hook
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 20-06-2021
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This is something more complex. The wave like line stands for the syllable tia, but what does it mean above the numbers 4, 3, 2 and the letter p at the top of the next four columns?
This seems like a little problem, but for me it is of great importance to decode the Voynich
RE: No text, but a visual code - Helmut Winkler - 21-06-2021
My knowledge of astronomical tables is limited, but it looks like prima, secunda, tertia, quarta, as simple as that
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 21-06-2021
It's not that easy
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
On the next page, above the numbers there is no wave like line, but two separate small lines, on the p (prima) there is a superscript symbol that looks like a 9, and then on the M (minutes) another two lines
Very tricky, isn't it?