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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - davidjackson - 15-07-2018
Quote:The yin/yang concept was very prevalent in medieval texts. Everything was classified male/female, hot/cold, wet/dry, etc.This is one of the few times I'll disagree with you JPK. You are confusing a binary Taoist concept with a multiple medieval European philosophy.
The Middle Ages (and earlier Roman / Greek) philosopher / medical writers wrote about balance. This was not a duopoly. For example, there were four humours in the body which had to be balanced. The Europeans wrote about balancing the different humours. There was no mention of a duopoly, only of equilibrium between the different forces. How many forces in astrology? Yet the important thing was to find a balance between the forces.
Meanwhile, the Taoist spoke of a duopoly always. Male/Female. Ying / Yang. Good / evil. Two opposing forces, that were always fighting between themselves for control.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 15-07-2018
You're right David. They thought about them differently and even though they were applied to many of the same things, they came at them from a different perspective.
I guess I should have said, "The western version of concepts of opposition and balance." The eastern notion was also of balance, not only of opposition.
Also, many of the western ideas were based on quantities of 4, 7 and 12 (not necessarily of 2), with four being very prevalent. The number three was especially prominent in many eastern cultures but less so in the west (at least in scientific circles, despite the idea of the Christian trinity).
Medieval Europe did divide almost everything. The entire culture was infused with the idea that the universe could be broken down into these basic units, wet/dry, masc/fem, hot/cold, etc. Stars, plants, personalities, anatomy. It's impossible to read a medieval manuscript describing the natural world without encountering it, sometimes on every page, sometimes in every paragraph, and also in many of the rota diagrams. Even if it's not explicitly labeled, the way they colored the rota was often based on these ideas, as well.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 15-07-2018
I totally agree with the idea that colour is meaningful. It is very important to interpret well colours in the Voynich to understand the whole message of the manuscript.
For example in the biological section (for me it is astrological), we see usually the blue colour up and the green one down. It is clear that the green colour is water. And the blue one? I think is water too, but the water of the sky where the fixed stars are, according with the Genesis. In the time of the Voynich this blue water was in the Crystalline Heaven, the ninth sphere. Thereby, we see the personified stars coming down to the Earth and transform the blue water in green water for the herbs.
Another example: In the Recipes section (for me it is also astronomical) we see that red and yellow stars altenate. I think it is not a scribe's fancy, but a hint that they are stars in different moments: red stars at daytime and yellow ones at nigth. It could be another thing, but I believe colours express a polarity and the string of glyphs of each star correspond with that polarity, the travel of the stars around the celestial sphere.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 19-07-2018
As you know, for me there aren't letters but symbols which represent the Sun, the Moon and many stars and their positions. Anton wrote that statistically the most frequent star is (otol). I think this string stands for a celestial position occupied by many stars of the Voynich, and I suspect that it is when a star reachs its highest point on the meridian.
The most 'frequent word' of the VMS is (daiin). It must be an importan place in the celestial sphere. I'm going to do an exercise of decoding with my method:
(d) or 8 could be the longitude, the distance of the star from the Ecliptic
(a) is the star in conjuction with a position in the Ecliptic
(ii) According with the clock of the Rosettes these are markers in the sphere. In the medieval astronomy a kardaga is 15º. I think each (i) represent fifteen grades. Two (ii) are 30º. So the star is 30º away from (n)
(n) What's n? This glyph is almost always word final. It could be the sunset, the occultation of the Sun in the West. When we can see the stars.
The round shape of the (n) often changes, sometimes extends to the left. It is a clue because I believe the shape of the glyphs are meaningful. It can also be that the scribe, whis is used to write in latin, imitates the scribal conventions when writting the (n) as symbol final.
This exercise of course is a trial and error. But I think is the method
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 22-07-2018
It took me a long time decide to write in this forum. I know I sustain an odd theory, and many unrealistic theories have emerged for more than a hundred years. But two months ago I convinced myself that I could be right because I came to a conclusion that the Voynich is philosophically a book like the Lapidario of king Alfonso and its script is a variant of this charts full of numbers which we see in many astronomical medieval books. Instead of positioning the Sun, the Moon and stars with zodiac signs, latitude, longitude and other parameters, the author of the Voynich chose another method, an astronomical code using invented symbols moving in the dials of a Volvelle.
These three clues convinced me at all:
1º The (o) circle in the middle of many stars and the string of (ooooooooo) in the outer circumference of f70r1, string followed by other glyphs, suggesting that the whole text is a round travel along the 360º of the celestial sphere.
2º The sequence of (i) in the text up to three times, the same three lean (i) we see in the astronomical clock of the Rosette. This glyph is a marker for positioning the celestial objects. Each (i) is a kardaga, 15º.
3º The arrow (q) almost always attached to a (o) at the beginning of words, what indicates that is the star when comes out over de East horizon, the ascendant star. The same shape has the left leg of (t), what it seems a movement sign.
RE: No text, but a visual code - davidjackson - 22-07-2018
The lapiderio is not a stand alone text. Alfonso X commissioned it to translate wisdom into Europe. But the tradition can be followed from Arabic into the European tradition. Nothing in it is unique.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 23-07-2018
You are right David. Most of the astronomical and astrological works of king Alfonso, and of course the Lapidario, are translations from arab works. The arabs studied a lot the fixed stars and still we know some stars by their arab names.
As I've already said, I think the Lapidario has an huge value as paradigm of the Voynich. In both we see the 360º of the celestial sphere, 30 grades each Zodiac sign. In the Lapidario each grade is connected with a stone which gets its virtue from a star o more whose position are clearly described. Is it the same in an Herbarium like the Voynich? I think so
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 25-11-2018
I am more convinced that the strange string of glyphs is an astronomical code. I don't want to repeat the clues that I already said in previous post but I'd like to go back to another clue that I mentioned marginally. It is about the x Eva character, the picnic table whose shape is similar to the quincunx, one of the minors astrological aspects equivalent to 150º of distance between two celestials objects o two points in the ecliptic.
In the folio f57V, where we see that the so-called letters are in fact symbols, some of them besides of picnic table could be astrological aspects, like the semi-square, distance of 45º.
We can see the major planetary aspects in folio You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. depicted as linked heads: trine, square, etc. But in the time of the Voynich the minor aspects were not standarized. It happens the same with the zodiac signs, wich is easy to see in the second half of the XV century but no in the first one. In fact, we don't see them in the Voynich, only the nouns: Aries, Taurus, etc.
The Voynich is not an encyclopedia. All the manuscript contains the same message: where the stars are in the sky and how they reach the Earth to make be born and grow the herbs.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 29-11-2018
I have not found the planetary and zodiac symbols in manuscripts before the XV century. It seems that these pictograms started to be used in the time of the Voynich, maybe a few years later. We can see them in the incunabula books, but in the many zodiac man pictures of the manuscripts we see only the nouns of the signs and the drawings, never the symbols. This fact has made me think that the XV century was a time of formation of new languages and codes, not only cypher texts like the ones of Giovanni Fontana or Alberti, but also visual languages formed with astrological symbols.
I'm not the first to say that the Voynich text is in fact a string of astronomical-astrological symbols and Arab numbers. Mary D'Imperio said that many years ago. She thought that there was Latin abbreviations too. But I think there is no language, nothing phonetic. The educated men of the XV century understood what the Voynich says whithout needing words.
RE: No text, but a visual code - davidjackson - 29-11-2018
Astrological symbolism as we know it is mainly an invention of the renaissance. That's when everybody got excited looking for the philosopher's stone, lead into gold and the like.