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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 04-03-2021
Why are there almost no living plants in the ladies sections then? Off the top of my head I can think of only one.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 05-03-2021
If the iconographic reading of the VM were easy we would not be here debating it, but we have to give a meaning to what we see, and a meaning according to its time.
Why are the naked ladies seen on tubes or stuck in them? What do those pipes mean? This is an obligatory question
I see tubes on the Rosettes. Are they the same tubes? I think so because is the representation of the medieval universe, an universe of crystalline solid spheres. How would a medieval man imagine that the light of the stars reached the Earth? Well, possibly through tubes as if there were pipes in the sky.
What is then the relationship of the ladies (the allegory of the stars) and the plants? Well, we know the medieval lapidaries in which the stones are related to stars. Here it is the herbs. It is consistent with the culture of the time.
Let's not forget that in the VM we practically only see two things: plants and astronomical and zodiacal diagrams, many of them full of stars
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 09-03-2021
How do we interpret this?
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Looks like a flow coming out of a starry ceiling. Does anyone have a better explanation?
Why would a medieval man draw that? As if something were coming out of the stars
We just need our own experience because the sky that the authors of the VM saw is the same sky that we see, if we move far enough from the city to avoid artificial light.
If the night we look at there is any visible planet, Venus, Jupiter, whatever it is, we will see that there is no flow. They shine but nothing seems to come out of them. That doesn't happen with the stars. They twinkle.
This little observation is to show that the VM is not as weird as it seems. We just have to put ourselves in the shoes of a medieval man.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 14-03-2021
Some people think that to understand the imagery of the VM you first have to understand the text. I think the opposite. If there is any possibility of knowing what the VM is, it is by interpreting the iconography because both things must be related.
It is of course easier to get to understand the images before the text. What is strange is that since Panofsky there haven not been experts in the history of medieval art or in iconography who have not dared to speak about its meaning.
RE: No text, but a visual code - RobGea - 15-03-2021
From what i gather from voynich.nu is that Panofsky,
who was a master in Art history and held in high esteem and wrote at least one very influential book,
looked at the VMS for approximately 2 hours , made some statements which someone else wrote down,
then took away some photostats and never mentioned the VMS again and never wrote about it,
until 20 years later till when someone sent him a questionnaire about it.
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Again according to Voynich.nu another Art Historian,
Prof. Ewa Sniezynska-Stolot of the Jagiellonian University in Cracow has looked at the VMS and thinks its a students notebook.
also so has Prof. Dieter Blume, though they both apparently concentrated on the astrological section
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Altogether , a proper paper or article on the VMS especially concerning its imagery by an art historian with solid credentials
is something that would be very helpful and enlightening.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 19-03-2021
I agree with you RobGea that the opinion of specialists would be very useful, but this is slippery ground where it takes a lot of courage. I am an amateur and certainly not afraid of making a fool of myself.
It is revealing that Panofsky thought this of the VM: That it is probably the surviving one of two volumes: the plant and star half of the work which doubtless included also beasts and stones.
In other words, the fundamental thing for him and that it did not vary was the astronomical-astrological part because the stars influenced plants, animals and stones.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 26-03-2021
I think that the gliph that looks like the letter o is the symbol of the star within the system of symbols that is the script. Why do I believe this, something that seems so absurd?
First, because I see that little circle in the middle of the stars drawn in the VM, many times colored. Second, because I have an integrated idea of the VM and its iconographic meaning. Everything has the same message: the stars come down to Earth to make the herbs grow.
Therefore, the so-called text that accompanies all images, including plants, is nothing more than sets of astronomical symbols. The glyph o is logically the most common as well as others that is the same symbol with tails, a way to differentiate stars.
It is for this reason that we have the feeling that there are filler words. Or as Helmut Winkler has said: a word can be written where there is enough room.
Actually, the script looks like a game to place astronomical symbols with some rules but with a lot of elasticity
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 01-04-2021
Now that it is spring and you spend more time outdoors, I recommend looking at the sky. To understand some pages of the VM it is not necessary to study hundreds of medieval manuscripts. You just have to look at the stars. They twinkle, they blink, they fire something at us. Planets don't do that. The importance that from ancient times has been given to the stars comes from this singular property.
Well, what we see in the Rosette folio is precisely that, the blinking of the stars. From one circle to another, from one sphere to another, from the tubes comes out what the stars throw and the draftsman has tried to reproduce
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 03-04-2021
Venus doesn't twinkle?
Twinkling is atmospheric disturbance. When plants "rise" (as Venus does), they appear to twinkle too. Maybe not as much at a different angle, but sometimes it's hard to tell planets and stars apart (except for size).
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 05-04-2021
I doubt that in the Middle Ages it was known that twinkling is atmospheric disturbance. Putting that modern concept on a medieval man is an anachronism.
Yes, in very certain circumstances Venus can also twinkle, but claiming that reminds me of the Spanish saying looking for the three feet to the cat, which has no English translation. It is something like to split hairs.
Now seriously, I am quite convinced that the Rosette folio is a representation of the Ptolemaic universe, with the spheres and the stars emitting their virtues on the Earth. It is an iconographic reading that is coherent with the whole book, which forms a unit.
If someone has a better unified theory and defends it with solid arguments, I might change my mind. I am a librarian at the Nacional Libray of Spain, where bibliographic treasures are kept. I believe that the Voynich is a great treasure of human culture and trying to understand it is the only thing that matters.