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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Helmut Winkler - 31-01-2021
@ Antonio
I don't exlude the possibility that what you show of the Rosettes page is an astronomial clock, I think the Rosetees page is a map of a certain town and an astronomical clock would fit very well in this case, but this does not mean that the three lines in the EVA-p glyph are a symbol for hours or something astronomical at all, it just does not follow
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 31-01-2021
Helmut, I respect your opinion of course, but for me the Rosette folio is clearly a representation of medieval cosmology, with superimposed celestial spheres reaching Earth.
I don't trust to convince you. Neither you nor anyone. I have not done it with something easier. It is still thought that in the VM there is a biological or balneological section when the beautiful naked ladies are nothing but the personification of the stars. And I don't say it. It was said by an authority on iconology such as Erwin Panofsky, who spoke of them as astral spirits
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 06-02-2021
The best proof that the naked ladies are the stars are the spindles that some of them carry. For example this one from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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Why are they carrying these objects? Very simple. Because, like the Mithological Fates, they spin the hours of time. The spindle is a metaphor for the rotation of the heavens. Is what stars do: rotate eternally
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 09-02-2021
If anyone has doubts that the object that some ladies of the VM carry are spindles, they can see this image of the Three Fates
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As you can see the dots on the nymph's spindle that I showed in my previous post correspond to the planets and their spheres. The spindle itself is a small representation of the medieval cosmos.
I think it is quite clear that there are neither women nor nymphs in the VM. They are simply the personification of the stars and just assuming this, which is a proven fact, can lead to a better understanding of the VM
RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 09-02-2021
This has been discussed on the forum before. See this post and the next ones You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
See Gallica; You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The date of 1400 is off by more than a century: "Date d'édition : 1535-1536". This makes it unfortunately a difficult comparison.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 10-02-2021
I'm usually scrupulous about the chronology, but in this case it doesn't matter. What does a difference of 100 years matter if it is confirmed without any doubt that what the ladies of the VM hold are spindles?
The important thing is the concept, the symbolism and the comparison between the ladies of the VM and the Three Fates. All of them use spindles because they spin time, the hours of our life.
It seems evident that the ladies of the VM are the stars. They spin eternally. I understand that there is disparity of opinions about the script of the VM, but not about this which is crystal clear.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 20-02-2021
If there is any possibility of ever knowing what the VM sript means, I think it can only be through the imagery. Without the images we would be debating the VM forever and ever. Only they can shed light.
The naked ladies are clearly an allegory of the stars. Why? Because the culture of its time tell us. Look at this image of La Cité des dames by Christine de Pizan
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Here Christine is represented with three women, but they are not women, they are the representation of Reason, Righteousness and Justice and each one of them carries its attribute. This system of allegorical representation was common in the 15th century. And the same happens with the symbolism of the naked ladies of the VM, the stars, some of which carry spindles as attributes to represent their function, which is to spin time
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 20-02-2021
The spindles could relate to Fate, instead of stars. Or they could relate to time as you say, but perhaps not related in any way to stars.
I do not see it at all clearly as an allegory of the stars.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 21-02-2021
If I say that the naked ladies are an allegory of the stars, it is because I see it and because I know something about iconography, but above all because I see it.
It is not just the ladies with the spindles, it is that there are stars throughout the VM. And above all, in the zodiacal section each lady carries a star in her hand. To make the allegory more complete, they are pregnant because they are the ones who make the plants grow and grow.
I really don't know what else it takes to convince
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 04-03-2021
Whoever believes that the naked ladies represent real women of flesh and blood has to explain why they are seen on tubes or stuck in them. What do those pipes mean?
For me it is no secret since I see the tubes on the Rosette folio. It is the representation of the medieval universe. All you need is to know the culture of the time. It is a universe of superimposed crystalline solid spheres that must be crossed to reach Earth. What the ladies do, the allegory of the stars, is to descend through these tubes to fertilize the Earth and make the plants grow.
If anyone has a better explanation, I will read it carefully. But please, let it be an explanation like mine that relates all the sections of the book because the VM is a unit of meaning.