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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 03-07-2018
Thank you David for your comments. I take criticism. I respect very much the people's work of the forum. In fact, I read the posts of all of you for triyng to approve or disapprove my theory.
As you are interested in animism and mancies I think you will understand my point of view. To me, for deciphering the Voynich, it's necessary to do science of course, but without forget the magical component of that time. This spirit is what does that stars and herbs are linked in the mind of people.
I don't know how the script of the Voynich works, but I have a strong, strong suspicion based in theses assumptions:
1º The script transmits a message to people from XV century
2º The script and the imagery are related. In the imagery, I see herbs, many rare medicinal herbs, but also I see stars and the 30 grades of each sign of the Ecliptic.
3º And this is the important one: I know a paradigm, a model from this time: El Lapidario from King Alfonso X the wise. In this book each stone is associated with a grade of the Ecliptic and receives its virtue from one o more stars when they are in the Ascendent or in the Midheaven.
4º I think the shapes of the glyphs are important because they are iconic. I can see the (o) in the script and in the imagery and I believe it stands for the grade, for one star o more. I can see the leaned (i) of the script and also I see it in the astronomical clock of the Rosettes marking positions. And I see it up to three times in each position, the same in the script.
I insist. I don't know how the Voynich script works, but is very strong the suspicion that was generated with a astronomical Volvelle, a common tool in this time, and I rely in the help of all of you for solving the enigma.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 03-07-2018
(03-07-2018, 05:34 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
3º And this is the important one: I know a paradigm, a model from this time: El Lapidario from King Alfonso X the wise. In this book each stone is associated with a grade of the Ecliptic and receives its virtue from one o more stars when they are in the Ascendent or in the Midheaven.
You should look at what Nick Pelling has written about this, and also what others on the forum have written about it in previous threads. We are aware that stones, just like plants, were considered to get their virtues from the stars.
Quote:4º I think the shapes of the glyphs are important because they are iconic. I can see the (o) in the script and in the imagery and I believe it stands for the grade, for one star o more. I can see the leaned (i) of the script and also I see it in the astronomical clock of the Rosettes marking positions. And I see it up to three times in each position, the same in the script.
The r also leans.
Back-leaning letters can be found in charms and on talismans (especially those that were intended to ward off devils or illnesses). This style originates in the middle east and is sometimes also found in old semitic writings that were brought into the west.
There are a number of possible explanations for the leaning letters. They might originate from the middle eastern and kabbalistic traditions, or they might have been designed that way so VMS text can be mixed with regular text and still be recognizable (as happens on folio 116r). Another possible explanation is that the person who designed the text (not necessarily the scribes themselves) was left-handed. I have a number of samples of 15th-century text where the letters habitually lean.
Quote:I insist. I don't know how the Voynich script works, but is very strong the suspicion that was generated with a astronomical Volvelle, a common tool in this time, and I rely in the help of all of you for solving the enigma.
I think it's quite possible that the VMS was designed with something like a volvelle, rotating code wheels existed in the middle ages, but it doesn't necessarily have to be one that's astronomical. I think there's a high probability that there's astrological information throughout the VMS, it would be normal for the time (especially in texts with health-related subjects), but I am very skeptical that it is coded into every word (or almost every word).
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 04-07-2018
Of course, Nick Pelling and Julian, JB, and many other have talked about the link of the stars with stones and herbs. I only want to highlight the huge value of El Lapidario as paradigm of the Voynich.
I usually read the things all of you post in the forum. You are people who have studied the Voynich during years. I would be silly if I woudn't keep in mind what you write.
For example, I've read what many of you have written about (q) or the arrow as I like to name it, and (q) before (o).
You, JKP, has written that in some round drawings (wheel shapes) the text within a spoke sometimes begins with (qo), and that (qo) often skip over labels.
David Jackson, talking about spelling rules, says that (q) appears exclusively as a prefix and almost always followed by (o).
Emma thinks that (q) seems to have a grammatical rather than sound function.
Koen also says that (q) is rare in labels and that appears 99% of the time at the beginning of words.
Marco talks about the preference of (q) for appearance at the beginning of lines.
These opinions and others have convinced me that the (q), the arrow, is a movement sign and therefore don't appears in labels, and that the pair (qo) indicates the ortho of a grade or star when comes out over the eastern horizon, what in Astrology is known as the Ascendant, a very important astral aspect.
Maybe I'm wrong, but of one thing I'm sure. Solving the Voynich must be a collectiv work.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 06-07-2018
I'd like to add something more about (q), the arrow, I forgot in my last post. Many of you have seen that (q) looks exactly like the left half of the (t) gallow. About this resemblance, Emma has written that it must be some connection between the two glyphs in the writer's head.
And Anton has written that gallows are the only glyphs containing a vertical that raise above the line. The glyph (q) also contains a vertical but don't raise above the line.
For me it is a clue that (q) is a movement glyph. It stands for the Ascendant in the Ecliptic and does it move to the top, the Midheaven, as the Volvelle rotates.
Besides, ReneZ has talked about the equivalent functions of the gallows (t) and (k). Nick Pelling also has written about the specific substitutibility of these gallows (t) and (k).
I believe that they could stand for midday and midnight, but I'm not sure.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Emma May Smith - 06-07-2018
I don't recall publishing any of my thoughts about the connection between the vertical line of q and those of the gallows k and t. However, you're quite right that's what I think.
The best piece of evidence is the fact that sometimes the vertical line of q starts far too high, at about the level of a gallows glyph. Sometimes a gallows glyph starts at the level of a q, though this seems to be less common.
I doubt that the glyphs are connected in meaning (though it is a possibility), but rather that the stroke is the same in the writer's mind. I'm really not sure however.
RE: No text, but a visual code - DONJCH - 09-07-2018
(06-07-2018, 05:48 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't recall publishing any of my thoughts about the connection between the vertical line of q and those of the gallows k and t. However, you're quite right that's what I think.
You were in a discussion about that topic here
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I took the liberty because I think that more crosslinks to earlier discussions would be valuable.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 10-07-2018
I like an idea suggested by Sam G, who wrote that the Voynich glyphs expresses some kind of polarity, in the way up/down, left/right, here/there...
The pairs (t)(k) or (ch)(sh) and their equivalent functions are a good example of this polarity, which is a concept that gets along with my idea of the celestial sphere as the place where the glyphs travel around.
On the other hand, what do the rare glyphs stand for? they appear alone because they aren't no letters but symbols, and are a clue that all the glyphs are also symbols and stand for things that we can see or imagine, like stars and positions in the sky.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 11-07-2018
The yin/yang concept was very prevalent in medieval texts. Everything was classified male/female, hot/cold, wet/dry, etc.
If the text is meaningful, and related to the images (and even if it's not related to the images), there's a very high probability that these concepts are included.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 11-07-2018
Why are there so many rare glyphs in f57v? There are 7 out of 17 in the four times reapeating sequence of isolated glyphs. For me it is a clue that they aren't letters but symbols which connect in the brain with a image, no a sound. There is not any logic to mix in a folio letters very used in the text of the Voynich with others never used.
I think some of the rare glyphs can represent planetary aspects, the distance between the Sun and the Moon (there no more planets in the Voynich). I think so because (x), the picnic table, could be the symbol for quincuncio, the 150º distance in the celestial sphere. It easy to see it in books of Astrology.
Besides, all of you know that in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. the first two sequences contain (f) while the third and fouth ones (p). I return to quote Emma to say that each sequence is a quadrant and that (f) mark out a double quadrant and (p) the other one. That fit in with my idea that these glyphs could stand for caput a cauda draconis, the lunar nodes, opposed in the celestial sphere
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 14-07-2018
I don't want to be speculative, but talking about what we see. In the f58r, f58v and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. we see a star whose tail is connected to a leg of the gallow at the beginning of the paragraph. It is a real link. What was the scribe thinking when made this connection? It seems that in his mind the star and the gallow are strongly related. I believe that the gallow marks out a position of the star, maybe the highest point in the Ecliptic, but I'm no sure.
I've read that many of you think that gallows and other glyphs cannot be mapped to a letters and I agree. For me gallows mark out key points in the sphere. The gallows coverage is a clue. They extend a leg to the right to include other glyphs. They don't seem letters but signs of distance or time, arches of the sphere. What do you think?