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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 14-09-2020
There is a reason why women have many names of flowers.
Rosi, Heidi, Margerita, Daisy, and the fat one in June is bella Donna.
You see, for me they are not stars but plants.
Symbolically represented as women.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 14-09-2020
Sorry bi3mw I do not agree with you. We do know. Science would not advance if we did not formulate reliable and probable hypotheses, and the naked women of the VM are in all probability representations of the stars. The allegorical culture of the 15th century tells us and the codex itself tells us when we see the same figures in zodiacal pages.
In your thread Gallows and patterns in Rosette you have formulated a hypothesis: that there is a relationship between the lines in groups of three that we see in the images and in the script.
I agree with you because I believe that all the VM, imagery and script, form the same unit of meaning
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 28-09-2020
The Rosettes folio is a representation of the cosmos. It is something that Mary D'Imperio already suggested. Like Panofsky with the interpretation of nude women as astral allegories, we should study more what the first researchers already said.
That D'Imperio was right is demonstrable by consulting the VM's contemporary codices.
This is the 'Tratado de Astrologia' (RES/2), preserved in the National Library of Spain.
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The important thing here is not the central representation of the planets but those strange oval shapes with dots and hairs (rays) that we see in the margins. It is a vision of the sphere of the stars, a vision that is equivalent to what we see in the Rosettes folio of the VM.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 28-09-2020
I agree that there is a resemblance between the patterns in the VM and the decorative shapes in the corners of those diagrams.
However, my first impression is that in the Spanish Ms these are merely floral decorations with Arab influences.
That doesn't mean they are irrelevant to the VM - I think they may be. But the shapes don't seem to have any astronomical meaning of themselves.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 28-09-2020
Oval shapes (scaly shapes) with dots and points were very commonly added to illuminated initials. They are decorative touches that are especially common in German manuscripts, but they can be found in most western countries in the late 14th and 15th centuries.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 28-09-2020
Ok, JKP. Show me all those manuscripts to see if they have cosmological content or not. The oval shapes, scaly shapes or whatever we want to call it is a clear indication that it is a cosmological representation, specifically that of the sphere of the stars.
If I had that simplistic and anachronistic idea that these are mere decorative touches, I would have to think that the author of the VM was some kind of 20th-century avant-garde artist.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 29-09-2020
There are numerous copies of the Vulgate Bible that include those scaly shapes with dots as part of the decorated initials. Also Tractatus theologicus and some of the Latin breviaries (music). Sometimes it is a short or long line coming out of the top of the scale. Sometimes it is a little point, like the point of a spear. In the context of decorated initials, they are purely decorative. They have nothing to do with astrology.
Bumps that are piled up in triangles are not purely decorative if they are in the context of illustrations or maps. They represent mountains most of the time.
On the VMS rosettes folio, I don't think the bumps and lines are purely decorative. I think they are meant to separate "emissions" and concepts. Some of them are drawn like hills, some like palisades. These are probably abstractions of physical and cosmological ideas.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 29-09-2020
It is a mistake of iconological interpretation to confuse the floral decoration of manuscripts with what we see in Tratado de Astrologia (Res/2) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
All the illustrations in this codex, contemporary with the Voynich, have the same motifs drawn in their corners: oval shapes with dots. This insistence on drawing the same thing in an astronomy book is pure symbolism. It does not reflect anything real but, as JKP says about the Rosettes of the VM, it is an abstraction of a cosmolofical idea.
The idea is that the last sphere of the cosmos, that of the stars, is pierced like a Gruyère cheese. Through these holes the stars send theirs rays.
The interpretation of the Voynich's images (including the misnamed nymphs, umbrellas, tubes and other elements) is so important that if its cosmological vision is not understood it is imposible to understand the script and its meaning.
The Tratado de Astrologia is the best document of its time to understand the VM and proves that the Voynich is not a hoax at all but a genuine work.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 30-09-2020
I don't think the decorative portions of scale-shapes in the Tratado de Astrologia are any different from the decorative scale-shapes in the Vulgate Bible or music books. They are drawn in the same way, around the edges. They use the same elements, scaly shapes with dots and little lines or points coming out of the ends.
It's the part in the center, within the decorative borders, that has the astrological content.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 30-09-2020
Can anyone really believe that the author of Tratado de Astrologia filled in all the astronomical illustrations with an abstract motif as if he were a 15th century Picasso?
What common sense says and what we know about medieval culture is that these motifs are something symbolic that refers to an imagined reality: the configuration of the cosmos.
If there are Vulgate Bibles with these iconological motifs it is precisely because they also allude to the idea of the cosmos.
The Tratado de Astrologia is a key document for the understanding of Voynich's iconology. Another way of thinking is that there is an armadillo in the VM. But for that I don't waste my time