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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 01-09-2020
Sorry if I repeat myself, but I think someone has to firmly hold what seem like a paradox and is the greatness of the VM: There is no language, there are no words, there is nothing to read, and yet the script that we see had a meaning for its creator. It is an extraordinary example of the 15th century European culture.
The script is made up of strings of astronomical symbols that are intended to be a representation of the movement of celestial objects in space. The key to everything is the symbol that looks like the letter o and that simply represents the stars in space.
But the author does not pretend to make astronomical tables or a common science. He's probably playing a magic game.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 08-09-2020
I am convinced that if there is a solution for the VM it should be found with works of its same time. Applying 21st century methods or tools is a futile exercise.
This is the [font=Verdana]Armenian MS in the Schoenberg collection (LJS 443) from around 1420. An image of this codex with [/font][font=Verdana]spiral drawings is similar to the f68v3 in the Voynich.[/font]
[font=Verdana] But it is not the only coincidence. There is also this image with several spheres[/font]
[font=Verdana]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[/font]
[font=Verdana]In these spheres, Armenian alphabet words are mixed with astronomical symbols, such as the Moon and Sun. And most surprising of all: there are small circles in a row in each sphere, as in the folio of the VM with nine small circles in a row. It is another indication that it is an astronomical symbol, the degree of the sphere or the star symbol.[/font]
[font=Verdana] This symbol is the same that we see in the VM script, the most common glyph.[/font]
[font=Verdana]Yeah I know it sounds crazy but someone has to say[/font]
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 08-09-2020
Voynich researchers are familiar with this manuscript. Personally, I think it is one of the more interesting ones.
Manuscripts in Latin and vernacular language sometimes also include astronomical symbols. This is not confined to Armenian.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 09-09-2020
So, the real link here, IMO, is Anania Shirakatsi and his 'Eight Phases of the Moon' diagram - the 'wheel with eight curved spokes'.
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THe LJS 443 compilation has copies of two of his works, in addition to the eight- and twelve-spoke diagrams.
The VMs is visual - at least in a significant part. And it is intentionally tricky. The VMs cosmos of f68v3 is an example of disguise created by combination. The combination is formed from an eight-spoke Shirakatsi wheel with a modified version of Oresme's cosmos from BNF Fr. 565 fol. 23 dropped into the empty central circle. [Like putting a hot-rod engine in an old jalopy.]
The reason for this is so that the imagery *cannot* be solved by a single identification. It takes both! The intent is to make the puzzle more complex. The cultural and historical distances between the two main elements used in the VMs cosmos provide an indication of the range of information used in VMs creation and required to further VMs explanation. It is also an indication of the sort of sophistication (trickery) used in the White Aries illusion and the papelonny pun. The visual riddles are based on historical information and cultural practice (such as heraldic canting). Do we expect to solve the riddles of the VMs when we do not know the relevant traditions?
LJS 443 clearly brings the Shirakatsi diagram into the range of the VMs parchment dates.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 13-09-2020
For me, one of the biggest problems in the VM investigation is that there is no agreement even on the most elementary things, which is a symptom of not delving into the culture of the fifteenth century.
For example, the great expert in iconography Erwin Panofsky already made it clear that there were no women in the VM, that they were astral spirits. Well, there is still talk of a biological or balneological section. And that happens despite the evidence that they are the same figures of the zodiacal pages.
You don't have to study too much to understand that these nude women are an allegory of the stars, a common artistic resource at the time. You just have to see the painting The birth of Venus, by Botticelli. The author painted a woman but in reality it represents a planet.
It seems obvious, but I am afraid that it wil continue to be spoken and written for many years of the biological or balneological section of the Voynich.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 13-09-2020
(13-09-2020, 06:42 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
For me, one of the biggest problems in the VM investigation is that there is no agreement even on the most elementary things, which is a symptom of not delving into the culture of the fifteenth century.
...
I think this is a highly incorrect statement.
There are many researchers here who are intensively looking into the culture of the fifteenth century. I've spent the majority of the last 13 years delving into 15th-
century culture, and there are Voynich researchers who have been doing it longer than I have.
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
Antonio García Jiménez Wrote:For example, the great expert in iconography Erwin Panofsky already made it clear that there were no women in the VM, that they were astral spirits.[/font]
This has been discussed on the forum, as well, and numerous researchers felt that the nymphs might be spirits, anima, souls, or whatever you want to call them.
You should not assume what we do or don't think or be telling us (incorrectly) what we think until you take the time to READ what we have written.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 13-09-2020
Hmmm, if it happens somewhere that ghosts, anima, and souls are just lying around and it looks like they need medical help, then I consider it.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 13-09-2020
In medieval manuscripts, a high percentage of human forms are personifications. They are not actual people. They represent ideas, myths, souls, vices and virtues, angels, muses, actors, gods and goddesses, etc.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 14-09-2020
The only certain thing is that in this forum many members still talk about the biological or balneological section of the VM. And if that happens on the site with the best researchers, it can be assured that this will continue to be talked about in the media.
It is in this forum where this big mistake could be corrected because it is a big mistake to think there are real women in the VM. It would be the first step to understand that these figures represent the stars and that both, the images and the script, form a unit in the minds of the authors of the Voynich.
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 14-09-2020
(14-09-2020, 01:28 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is in this forum where this big mistake could be corrected because it is a big mistake to think there are real women in the VM.I would not say that this is a mistake. Fact is, we just don't know.