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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - ReneZ - 30-05-2020
(30-05-2020, 01:22 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.that no one has highlighted the resemblance
I am sorry if I was not too specific. This resemblance was certainly pointed out.
This is also true for the occurrence of a similar character in the Glagolitic alphabet.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 30-05-2020
(30-05-2020, 01:22 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Images like this, René, may have been circulating for years, but it amazes me that no one has highlighted the resemblance of a glyph so difficult to find with the same glyph of the VM.
...
Antonio, we have told you over and over in this thread that we know this manuscript. It has been linked on the forum. We KNOW there are talismanic letters and that a couple of them look like VMS gallows.
.
I posted an example of the Taurus astrological symbol from Kitab al-Bulhan in April 2016 and I already knew about talismanic alphabets, so when I saw the loop-line characters in the manuscript I knew what they were.
I wrote most of a follow-up blog with more details on how to actually read the talismanic script, but I always have many blogs on the go and I never got it posted.
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]In August 2017, I posted on the forum about the Bulhan manuscript in connection with the zodiac symbols.[/font][/font]
About a year-and-a-half after I blogged about it Diane also brought up [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Kitab al-Bulhan (Dec. 2017), so I included some of the examples from my unfinished blog on this thread:[/font]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
.
We posted about these symbols years ago. [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]All you had to do was type "Bulhan" into the forum search to see it.[/font]
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 30-05-2020
Ok JKP, now that you've put the link I can see it. I already said that if someone showed it to me I had no problem rectifying. I see Nick Pelling gave another arab example in 2008.
It really amazes me how little this issue was discussed in the 2017 thread. We the members of this forum have seen hundreds and hundreds of medieval manuscripts. Is it that the gallow Eva-t is so frequent that we can overlook its appearance in a manuscript? And also that it appears next to Eva-k like in the VM.
I believe that it is not correct to speak of the talismanic alphabet because it induces us to think about the signs of a language. It would be more appropiate to say set of talismanic symbols, which implies that they are glyphs with their own meaning
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 30-05-2020
Antonio Wrote: I believe that it is not correct to speak of the talismanic alphabet because it induces us to think about the signs of a language. It would be more appropiate to say set of talismanic symbols, which implies that they are glyphs with their own meaning
I've tried to explain this.
- There is a talismanic alphabet (just like the Latin or Cyrillic alphabet).
- There are also talismanic, kabbalistic, and angelic symbols based on the same line-loop system, which I illustrated above.
There is both an alphabet and a very large set of symbols. The one you linked is written with an alphabet. I posted examples of the others so you would understand that both exist and what they were used for.
These symbols were NOT overlooked. You keep saying that. We are aware of them. Some of us have studied them and continue to study them. You just discovered them and you are lecturing us about their meaning?
Why haven't we discussed them more? We simply don't want to jump to conclusions. As Rene so cogently pointed out, we don't KNOW if they are directly related. There are only two that are significantly similar to VMS characters. Nevertheless, those of us who are interested in them always keep them in mind when looking at the VMS text.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 30-05-2020
JKP, I'm glad to hear you continue studying these glyphs
Something I want to emphasize is that the VM is not just a weird script. It is also a weird imagery. And we can make more conjectures about the images than about the script. Looking at the images it can be said that the codex is about science with a magical component. Is the reason why similar glyphs like those in the Kitab al-Bulhan are relevant
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 30-05-2020
I have already blogged about the similarity of specific parts of the VMS text to magical incantations. These patterns are common to both western and middle eastern charms.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 11-06-2020
We all know that one of the most intriguing glyphs is Eva-q or the arrowhead, as I call it. I think this has been discussed before. The question is:
Is q the same glyph as the left leg of gallows t and p? The shape is the same and just as q it is always attached to another glyph, the left leg of these gallows is also attached.
The answer we give to this question is of the utmost importance. If we think it's the same glyph, what we have is a glyph that moves, that goes up. It helps explain that q hardly appear on labels.These are static, they don't move. The run text are dynamic strings
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 11-06-2020
I don't know if it's the same glyph, but it might be.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 13-06-2020
Whoever believes like me that Eva-q is the same glyph as the left leg of gallows t and p, has to find an answer to this strange behavior: a glyph moves and goes up. Eva-q is not in labels because they are static and this glyph is a sign of movement. It is the first of the symbol chains (words) because it is the start point of movement.
It is not the only indication that the script is something in motion. The repetition of Eva-c and Eva-i are also signs of movement. cc indicates that c has moved a little and ccc indicates that it has moved a little more.
The VM script is a spatial representation. The scribe copies on the parchment the symbols inscribed in an artifact of overlapping circles. The scribe moves the circles and composes the chains of symbols
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 18-06-2020
There are other signs of movement in the script besides those already mentioned. We see the benches next to the gallows and also the benches under the gallows, as if they had moved. In the artifact, maybe a volvelle, that serves to compose the symbol strings, the scribe moves the outer circle where the bench is inscribed and superimposes it on the circle where the gallow is.
This way of generating the so-called text, the symbol strings, is what best explains the repetition two and three times of the same words. What the scribe does is move the overlapping circles in which the glyphs are inscribed at the same time, and then he writes it on the parchment.
Why and when does he do this?
They are the rules of a game that we do not know but that have a meaning for the scribe