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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 09-04-2020
If I say that the VM is a scientific treatise on astrological magic it seems like I'm saying something contradictory. Can science and astrological magic go together? For me, this is the key, the key that opens the understanding of the VM.
The closest work to VM in its time is the Giovanni Fontana books. Fontana, an engineer, imitates the power the magicians, but he uses a cipher that doesn't hide anything. He just wants to imitate magic writing, but with intelligible meaning. He invents characters with lines and small circles that look like the signs we see in astral magic. But they are characters that are easily replaced by Latin letters.
The author of the VM, like Fontana, also imitates the power of magic, but with astrological glyphs that have meaning by themselves.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 10-04-2020
Using the VMs parchment dates as guides to an early 15th century perspective, then the separation of astronomy and astrology was still in process. They were still using the Julian calendar, which was clearly in error, and had been known to be incorrect by the highest authority at least since the time of Roger Bacon, and yet no correction was made till the Gregorian reform in 1582.
Astronomy is still geocentric from the perspective of the VMs cosmos. Astrology and the *sympathetic* sciences are set to blossom with Ficino. In deed, it certainly seems possible that the VMs creator had an idiosyncratic set of views at that time. However, there are certain structures.
In f57v, in the four by seventeen symbol sequence <almost identical>, there is a hidden structure based on traditional methods of interpretation. Three traditional interpretations focus on the fifth symbol in the sequence, an inverted 'v'. The first method of interpretation is Greek. The fifth symbol represents the letter 'lambda' and as such it stands in the proper spatial relationship with the first symbol, which appears as the Greek letter 'omicron', reading from right to left, which is valid in Greek.
The second traditional system of interpretation is the numerical system of the medieval era as displayed on the dress of Typus Arithmetica. If the fifth symbol is interpreted as the numeral '7', then the second symbol is in the proper place and is the numeral '4'.
The third traditional system is the Roman numeral system in which this symbol is an inverted '5' in the fifth place.
Everything depends on how the VMs glyphs are interpreted.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 11-04-2020
Of the three systems you mention R. Sale, I think the second one is the correct. In the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. seventeen symbol sequence, the inverted V is the number 7, the second symbol of the sequence is the number 4 and the third one is the number 8. I think the numbers represent zodiac signs, which were represented by numbers in relation to daylight hours of each. In a previous post I showed that zodiac sign-number association in three medieval Volvelles.
The symbols of the zodiac signs that we all know (the ram's horns pictogram for Aries, the bull's head for Taurus, etc.) were invented with the printing press. I have not seen these symbols in manuscripts prior to 1460. Therefore they do not appear in the VM.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 11-04-2020
Antonio, you have ask yourself why the character that resembles the number 9 (which was used as both a numeral and an abbreviation in the Middle Ages) is usually at the end of tokens. It is also sometimes at the beginning (which is consistent with its position in medieval abbreviations), but most of the time it is at the end.
It rarely occurs in other parts of the tokens.
If this were astrological or astronomical symbolism, why would it be positioned like this throughout the manuscript?
RE: No text, but a visual code - RenegadeHealer - 11-04-2020
(11-04-2020, 11:51 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Of the three systems you mention R. Sale, I think the second one is the correct. In the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. seventeen symbol sequence, the inverted V is the number 7, the second symbol of the sequence is the number 4 and the third one is the number 8. I think the numbers represent zodiac signs, which were represented by numbers in relation to daylight hours of each. In a previous post I showed that zodiac sign-number association in three medieval Volvelles.
This sounds fascinating, Antonio. Do you have a link where I can read more about this?
Those 12 printed glyphs that are used for the zodiac signs have fascinated me for a long time. When I first learned Chinese characters and was introduced to the linguistic concept of ideograms versus phonograms. I realized that the Roman writing system does indeed contain a small number of atavistic ideograms, and that the symbols for zodiac signs are some of the best known examples. Whose work would you recommend I read, if I want to know more about the evolution or etymology of these 12 glyphs?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 11-04-2020
Really?
How do I share a visual question with another person?
I need to be able to translate a character into a sound or image.
Do you know how many colors a rainbow has?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 11-04-2020
Simply put, the VM_Text is a constant.
V = Potato
No matter what you do with the potato, in the end it's a potato.
You need a variable.
That is, calculate with the unknown. = algebra.
Everybody can calculate with constants, greetings Uni Duisburg.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 12-04-2020
Aga, I'm not sure what you mean, but it seems to me that you are making the most common mistake in researching the VM: applying the current mindset and science to an object that belongs to another science and mindset.
Sorry RenegadeHealer, but I cannot recommend any book or work on the subject because I haven't found it. Astrology is now a pseudoscience and that has prevented much serious research on the impact it has had on humanity for centuries.
In relation to what JKP says, it is one of the most debated topics in the forum. There are glyphs that look like Latin letters or abbreviations, but they only seem so. Is the glyph that resembles (a) the letter a? I doubt it. Is the glyph that resembles the number 9 a number or a Latin abbreviation? I also doubt it very much.
The really important thing is that in the structure of the script these glyphs and the one that resembles the letter (o) complement each other, that is, they have the same semantic value
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 12-04-2020
(12-04-2020, 12:35 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
...
In relation to what JKP says, it is one of the most debated topics in the forum. There are glyphs that look like Latin letters or abbreviations, but they only seem so. Is the glyph that resembles (a) the letter a? I doubt it. Is the glyph that resembles the number 9 a number or a Latin abbreviation? I also doubt it very much.
...
Antonio, you completely missed my point.
WHY is it almost always positioned at the end, and sometimes at the beginning, and very rarely in the middles of tokens?
This is what occurs in Latin texts so... if you want to propose a symbolic interpretation you have to EXPLAIN why the position for this glyph follows linguistic patterns and how it can otherwise be interpreted as symbolic when it is positioned this way.
I am NOT saying the symbol is Latin. I am NOT saying it is a letter. I am saying it is POSITIONED as one would expect in texts that use Latin languages. This glyph is deliberately placed in a certain way throughout the manuscript.
If it were a number, as in moon charts, or latitude/longitude charts, or in calendars, or any of the other numerous ways in which numbers were used in the Middle Ages, then it would NOT be positioned like this.
If it's not a number, then what is it and why is it positioned this way?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 12-04-2020
You are right JKP and your observations are always a stimulus for research. If the symbol that resembles the number 9 is positioned in VM as one would expect in texts that use Latin languages, it is a powerful observation to study.
It is certain that the scribe wrote Latin fluently and most likely he used all his knowledge when he invented the script. The VM is the work of learned people and they probably wanted to make a code as close to an alphabet a normal script as possible.
The problem as I see it is that if the script were a language, the VM would have been solved not years ago but centuries ago, in the 17th century.
And with respect to the symbol that looks like a 9, of course it is not a number, because as Emma observed, its distribution in the script is complementary to that the symbol that looks like the letter a and both form a semantic unit with the glyph that looks like the letter o. The first symbol is an o with long tail and the second one an o with a short tail.
For me, simply a way to locate stars