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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 29-06-2019
Yes i wouldnt put too much stock on the captions or titles of anything in this online library. I just saw a clip with the title 'two kings' but one is clearly a female.
Probably Serbian cyrillic? Cant see it quite well enough to make it out.
RE: No text, but a visual code - VViews - 29-06-2019
The "strange signs" are pseudo-script, a topic that came up recently on the forum.
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The MS in question is the travels of Mandeville, detailing his adventures in foreign lands.
Mandeville mentions astronomers several times in the text.
The scripts of these foreign astronomers was not known to the illustrator, so he made up a pseudo-language inscription for this illustration.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 30-06-2019
You are right VViews. The illustrator made up a pseudo-language inscription. This is why I find a possible source of inspiration for the VM script.
The illustrator of Mandeville travels is contemporary with the author of the VM, he shares his same culture. For them, astronomy is an ancient science written in a mysterious language with an alphabet of magic signs. This is the underlying idea that could lead the author of the VM to invent an original astronomical code.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 02-07-2019
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In the Catalan Atlas we see the lunar mansions, each with its associated stars. In the VM imagery many of us have seen or thought we saw the lunar mansions. For me, the lunar mansions are also in the script. It's the first idea from which my theory emerged and it made me see the script as a visual code and not a language.
The key is the c glyph, the symbol of the half moon. The sequence of c, cc, ccc, the benches, the benched gallows, and also the c with a tail (Eva-s), they are all symbols to represent the lunar mansions. All serve to help locate the stars, which is the purpose of the VM.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 08-07-2019
About the interpretation of the VM script there is a belief that there are only three possible solutions: It is a lost language with an invented alphabet, or a complex encrypted language, or a hoax, a nonsense text.
But this is just an assumption because there is another possibility that is the one I support: an iconic code in which each symbol has an astronomical sense. The script would be a catalog of stars, an interpretation consistent with the imagery.
I don't know yet how the code works but over time I have realized that the main problem to accept my theory is of a philosophical order, the resistance to admit that there are more than 200 pages written with astronomical coordinates.
The question is: are the people of the 15th century and we of the 21st century the same humanity?
Of course not. Exaggerating a bit, I have the feeling that the mentality of an extraterrestrial would be more similar to ours than that of a person of the fifteenth century. We are the product of time.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 09-07-2019
(08-07-2019, 09:15 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.About the interpretation of the VM script there is a belief that there are only three possible solutions: It is a lost language with an invented alphabet, or a complex encrypted language, or a hoax, a nonsense text.
...
Not true. There have been numerous other possibilities suggested and I'm tired of you continually suggesting that we are myopic and can't see possibilities you can see. The difference is that some of us prefer to have some EVIDENCE of what is going on.
How do you know c is a half moon? And cc and ccc. Maybe they are Roman numerals... or something else.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 09-07-2019
I respect you and the members of this forum too much to suggest that all of you are myopic. Quite the contrary, I often use your findings to reinforce my ideas and I have quoted you on numerous occasions.
For example, I read on ReneZ's website the idea of an overall meaning of the VM, an overall philosophy related with the 360 degress of the Zodiac. It is what I think.
I also think that it is impossible to understand the script without understanding the imagery. Keep talking about a biological section is, for me, not understand the imagery. The nice ladies are stars, astral spirits, as Erwin Panofsky, an authority in medieval iconography, said many years ago.
My idea is very simple: the VM script is an astronomical system. And if c, cc, ccc, were Roman numerals, something I don't believe, they would be part of this system.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 09-07-2019
(08-07-2019, 09:15 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. The question is: are the people of the 15th century and we of the 21st century the same humanity?
Of course not. Exaggerating a bit, I have the feeling that the mentality of an extraterrestrial would be more similar to ours than that of a person of the fifteenth century. We are the product of time.
I think they were the same humanity that we are now. I dont know about you but i dont think that what i wear, eat, read or learn makes me any more or less human than if i switch to only wearing, eating and reading 15th century items, (among whatever other things). Id miss some things of course, given our technology today.. But i am sure there were those that were of various levels of intelligence just as there are now, some kinds might not be as useful now, some moreso.
I myself am seeing things in quire 13 that are beyond my expectations, which if they are so, would be pretty cool.. But then, if aliens came down and judged us on our intelligence 600 years from today, it would depend on the sampling they were able to take, there is a lot of repeated utter trash mixed in with the rare gems of art, wisdom and knowledge, with part of the latter coming from ancient times.
Someone plucked from the 15th century and brought to ours would have some catching up to do, and some getting used to things that have changed, but i think they could manage it. Imagine the gaps they could fill for us if they (and we, in our preparedness for their arrival) were of the right ilk for what we wanted to know about those times.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 09-07-2019
(09-07-2019, 05:18 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I also think that it is impossible to understand the script without understanding the imagery. Keep talking about a biological section is, for me, not understand the imagery. The nice ladies are stars, astral spirits, as Erwin Panofsky, an authority in medieval iconography, said many years ago.
My idea is very simple: the VM script is an astronomical system. And if c, cc, ccc, were Roman numerals, something I don't believe, they would be part of this system.
I agree with you, not biological.
It could well be that there are astrological aspects to it but to me it has to relate to time and place for astronomical code to have any sense. Ie where you view the star from affects the timing of its occlusions, risings, etc.
Time is related to history, place to geography. I think the nymphs stand for something different than you state, but that doesnt mean the text couldnt still have astronomical aspects to it.. i guess we just have to figure it out.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 10-07-2019
I think it's very likely that there are astrological references in the text.
But I find it hard to believe that someone would drawn hundreds of plants, numerous bathing nymphs, possible references to classical and astrological literature and then ignore all those drawings and fill 200 pages with astrolabe coordinates.
It's not enough to have a "hunch", you have to find evidence to prove the hunch is also fact.