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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 03-06-2018
As I said in my former post, any theory must be backed by clear clues, something that everyone can see. With the Voynich, there is always the risk of creating a fantastic mental construction.
In the Rosettes, we can see what has been called a clock. It is in the left lower corner. Yes, it is a clock but astronomical like, par example, the Padua tower clock. The small hands are equal.They don't indicate hours and minutes; they form a trigono, one of the planetary aspects, what it means that the Sun is 120º away of the Moon in the celestial sphere.
More important are the leaned lines inside the double ring that represents the celestial sphere. They are in eight positions and there are three lines in each position. In the text of the Voynich we see this leaned line (the i of EVA alphabet) and we see it one, two and even three repeated times. What a coincidence! Maybe it's not a coincidence, but a sign that marks the position of the Sun, the Moon and the stars.
Sorry, but I think the Voynich is a boring text for us, not of course for the mankind of XV century that believed in the influence of the stars in their life.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Davidsch - 04-06-2018
Hmm, this is quite interesting Antonio. If it would have a meaning towards the stars, it would make sense if there are internal references in the ms.
For example: the herbals refers to a star map. The labels (names) would be used in the text.
We did not find clear label ->to text references. What would be a reasonable explanation for that in your experience?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 05-06-2018
Thank you Davidsch for your comments,
I think there is a complex structure in the Voynich but all the sections are interconnected and have the same goal: to indentify in the celestial sphere the star or stars that give its virtues to a specific herb or plant, the best moment for picking herbs and also for preparing recipes, etc. In the zodiac section, the words distribution is different because here is known the month of the year: March (Aries), April (Taurus)...So the system for the location of stars is easier than in the herbals sections and others where it is used, par example, the gallows p and f, that I think are the lunar nodes, caput and cauda draconis. They always are at the top of the paragraphs because serve as coordinates.
The so-called text is a astronomical code. All of us have seen in medieval manuscripts these astronomical boards full of numbers for the location of planets and stars. The Voynich use an original system generated with a Volvelle
RE: No text, but a visual code - Davidsch - 06-06-2018
Would it be reasonable to assume that there is a star-herbal relation, it also would be possible that there is a calendar system used somewhere,
most obviously in the zodiacal section. Comparing those sections should be then related to a calendar system. see also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
At first it looked like a lunar or lunisolar system, because of the added extra woman on top of a particular page f72r2,
but there seem to be 30 ladies in almost every zodiac image and therefore it could be also related to an arbitrary other star-calendar.
Anyways, if there is a herbal-star relation (in the first section there are 195 herbal pages) and
also a zodiacal-star relation, what star would be the best candidate for it and why, would be a good question.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 06-06-2018
I don't know what star or stars are related with a specific plant. I think is like in the Lapidarium of king Alfonso but I don't know the criteria used by the scribe or rather the astrological medicine school.
The theory must be constructed step by step. First of all, be convinced that the glyph (o) stands for a grade of the celestial sphere. We can see it in two different places in the Voynich: in f70r1 at the top there is a string of ooooooooo in the sphere, and, on the other hand, in many drawings of stars we can see a circle, an o, in the middle of the star.
I hope to convince you that this is the right way
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 06-06-2018
Quite a few medieval manuscripts list the relationship of the herb to the stars. I've seen this quite frequently. Usually they refer to it as the ruling planet or ruling star and each plant has one.
I think it's entirely possible that plant attributes, ruling stars, and other "properties" or "temperaments" have been assigned to plants (and perhaps even bathing practices) within the VMS. I've assumed all along that this is a possibility as it was common practice in the Middle Ages to believe that everything was governed by the stars, but determining HOW this information might be codified is the difficult part and you haven't really given an example of exactly how you think the Voynichese text translates to meaningful information.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 09-06-2018
You are right JKP. I don't know yet how the Voynich text is codified. But I'm completely sure that this string of symbols were generated with a Volvelle.These rotatory dials are medieval computers that mark the position of de Sun, the Moon and the stars. The scribe held one of them in a hand and wrote with the other hand.
The Voynich text is like a astronomical table of the Middle Ages but codified in a original way that we have to decode. It is like decoding a language but visual, no phonetic
I think that talking about bathing practices is inappropiate because you imagine women and they are not women. They are the personification of the stars inside the plants, giving them its virtues. This is very important for understanding the Voynich text.
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 09-06-2018
(09-06-2018, 07:34 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I think that talking about bathing practices is inappropiate because you imagine women and they are not women. They are the personification of the stars inside the plants, giving them its virtues. This is very important for understanding the Voynich text.
Bathing practices were also governed by the stars. I read parts of a medieval manuscript that were all about when to bathe and how to bathe and astrology was part of the equation. Which means... the women in the VMS might not be personifications of the stars, they may be nymphs demonstrating when and how people should bathe, with astrology as one component, but not necessarily the only one.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 10-06-2018
You are right that astrology governed bathing practices as well, but in the Voynich I'm convinced that text and imagery form a whole, both talk about the same thing: the influence of stars on herbs.
In the Middle Ages, the theologian and cardinal virtues were represented as women. The personification was a common method used in iconography. In the Voynich, the women are stars. When you see the zodiac section there is not any doubt. The biological section is more complex but what we see are the stars coming down to the Earth through pipes. They have to come across all the machinery of the aristotelic cosmos. In the Rosettes we can see the pipes and this machinery.
The ripples are the symbol of the sphere of the fix stars.They are an stylized iconography from the ouroboros, symbol of the perpetual time
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 24-06-2018
I have the same opinion as Friedman and Tiltman, two of the best researchers of the Voynich in the XX century. No natural language at all! It is a sort of artificial language. I think it is a visual code, and this code is formed with symbols that stand for no concepts or ideas, but positions on the celestial sphere.
Thinking in an alphabet is the biggest prejudice. The paragraphs on the herbal section only can be two things: a text describing the medicinal properties of the plants, or a sistem that link the herbs with the stars. If it were the first one, the Voynich would be written in latin o any other european language. It is importan to bear in mind that this manuscript is an european cultural product from XV century. There must be a solution!
I'm strongly convinced that it is the other option: an original method for the location of the stars that give its virtues to each plant. It is consistent with the mindset of that age.
The method includes elements like the grades of the Sphere, the Sun, the Moon and its mansions, the Midheaven, the ascendant (the q of EVA)...The string of glyphs was made with a Volvelle.
I don't know yet how it is codified. It's very complex, but is the KEY to decipher the Voynich