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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 13-04-2024
Take it easy nablator, this race is long. I understand that my theory about the script seems absurd to you. It's very difficult to see. What bothers me is that someone like you who has a 5 reputation is not able to say anything regarding the explanation I have given of folio 67v2. All criticism, none support. And I don't think anyone has explained that page as I have, as anyone initiated into astrology understands it.
You are not the only one. People I appreciate intellectually also tend to respond with indifference. Nor invoking the name of a renowned art historian like Panofsky as I have done on countless occasions to explain Quire 13.
I have sometimes wondered about the usefulness of this forum. I trust above all in those people who, without being a member, enter the web daily and just want to know.
RE: No text, but a visual code - nablator - 13-04-2024
(13-04-2024, 06:55 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Take it easy nablator, this race is long. I understand that my theory about the script seems absurd to you. It's very difficult to see. What bothers me is that someone like you who has a 5 reputation is not able to say anything regarding the explanation I have given of folio 67v2.
I'm not qualified to have an opinion on everything.
The aspects are plausible I guess but I don't know anything similar so it's difficult for me to compare and have an informed opinion.
The central spiral could represent the Sun, a standard representation, but the star in the middle is not. The square around it: seasons? The two moons and two suns emerging from some kind of geyser or vapor could be someone's idea about flos coeli, collected at the time of equinoxes at sunrise and (why not?) at solstices at moonrise for symmetry. Pure speculation. I don't think the concept existed before the 17th century (?) so it's probably not flos coeli. I've read too many alchemy books. I don't necessarily believe that there is anything about alchemy in the VMs but some of the ideas that circulated among natural philosophers could be relevant.
RE: No text, but a visual code - RobGea - 13-04-2024
(13-04-2024, 05:00 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the VMs is a book of health recipes and charms for goats ... for goats and written in the language of the goats.
"Goat theory" , so good it deserves its own thread.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Hermes777 - 13-04-2024
(13-04-2024, 07:15 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I have said more than once that the only parallel of the VM is the lapidary of Alfonso, with equivalent zodiac pages.
I am of the view nowadays, Antonio, that our author knows Ptolemy's Canones, Vaticanus graecus 1291, but also of the view that the lapidary of Alfonso is the likely source for an astrological system of 360 distinct degrees. I can entertain the possibility the author has seen or knows the Alfonso model. What scenario links both those texts, one in Madrid and one in Brescia, at the time?
RE: No text, but a visual code - tavie - 13-04-2024
(13-04-2024, 10:11 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Absolutely. Perhaps if we do a "So you have a Voynich theory thread", this theory should be what all others must aim to beat. No other theory has attempted to explain entropy and different patterns. And so elegantly!
RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 13-04-2024
Naja, die englischen Ziegen verstehen ja auch kein deutsch. Daher schon der Unterschied in der Übersetzung.
Ja das mit den Dialekten für Ziegen hat was auf sich.
Bei uns "blöken" die Schafe und die Ziegen "meckern".
Vielleicht nur ein Übersetzungsproblem.
Well, the English goats don't understand German either. Hence the difference in the translation.
Yes, there's something about the dialects for goats.
Here, the sheep "bleat" and the goats "bleat".
Maybe it's just a translation problem.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 14-04-2024
Hermes777, since you are referring to the Vaticanus graecus 1291 manuscript, I think it is interesting to talk about its iconography because it shows very well the tradition of genres in celestial objects.
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Going from the outside to the inside, we see the zodiac, the representation of the twelve months and twelve female figures surrounding the Sun in a chariot. The female figures carry labels to indicate the day each zodiac sign enters. This is well explained on ReneZ's page.
What could those naked female figures be if not representations of the moon? We see that they are painted white if it is day and dark if it is night. There is a parallel in Voynich itself, with moons painted yellow or red to indicate day and night.
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This iconography is interesting to see how the moon is painted as a woman because its name is feminine. And the VM follows the same logic with the representation of the stars on the zodiacal pages, given that stars is a feminine name.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 22-04-2024
A recent theory relates the nude female figures of Quire 13, as well as the Rosettes, to sexuality, conception, motherhood, etc. It is nothing new, it is the same error that we have seen before: the iconographic confusion of believing that what we see are real women or their representation. It is an error so repeated that it is surprising that it continues to be maintained and shows that what is really needed in the Voynich studio are art history professionals.
Personification is a widely used medieval iconographic resource, especially with abstract names such as virtues. The best-known example in the Allegory of Good Government, a mural from the city of Siena.
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The female figures that surround the Governor of the city are not real women, but rather the representation of virtues such as Justice, Temperance, Prudence, etc. It seems like something easy to understand, but I don't know why it is not understood this way with the VM.
RE: No text, but a visual code - HermesRevived - 25-04-2024
I have had to change my account Antonio, but the work continues.
I am posting work exploring the text as astrological notation. The latest post is here:
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Again, I think this is taking it in the direction you have been urging throughout this thread. We agree on 'No text, but a visual code', but I think it is more complex than you have suggested. Anyway, I hope my posts help further your cause.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 28-04-2024
Thanks Hermes. I will continue reading you.
Someone may be surprised to see that in this thread I make comments about the illustrations. I've been doing it since the beginning. For me the script is not understood without the imagery and vice versa.
I mean that dozens of plants that cannot be identified correspond to a script that cannot be translated into linguistic terms. If we could identify these plants without any problem, the script would be written in a recognizable language and alphabet.