+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
RE: No text, but a visual code - pjburkshire - 12-04-2024
I'm used to thinking of the Moon in terms of phases. I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of Moon Zodiac. I'm trying to figure out if there is some way that the Moon Zodiac could account for the 15 faces on f67v2.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 12-04-2024
What do you have to say about the VMs cosmos? Without the planetary spheres and the heavenly realms, the VMs cosmos is clearly not up to either the scientific or religious standards of other cosmic diagrams before 1450.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 12-04-2024
In relation to folio f67v2 to which pjburkshire alludes I am going to show what these illustrations mean in all probability. It is one of the pages that has no mystery for anyone who knows anything about astrology.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
What you see in the center is a kind of paper pinwheel to suggest movement. Around, forming a circle, two suns and two moons are seen facing each other. This may be surprising to those who do not know what astrological aspects are, which is nothing more than angular relationships between two celestial objects. Since the angles are measured on the sphere and there are two hemispheres, they are duplicated. The above is clearly seen in the corners of the page, where the most important astrological aspects are illustrated with heads: trine, square, sextile, opposition and conjunction.
Let's look at the upper left drawing, a trine in which the sun is 120º from the moon. Since this angle is measured in both the right and left hemispheres, that is why two moons are drawn. In the lower right drawing there is an opposition, a full moon, but without an eclipse, and that is why the shadow of the Earth (that cute little hat) looks up. Next to the moon there is another perhaps to symbolize the conjunction of two celestial bodies.
In the case of quadrature (90º) we see one sun and one moon in each of the hemispheres, hence there are two suns and two moons
RE: No text, but a visual code - pjburkshire - 12-04-2024
I'm wondering if there is any significance to the thickness of the lines connecting the objects. In the upper-right the connecting lines are thin and make an X shape. In the other three corners the objects are connected with thick lines.
RE: No text, but a visual code - tavie - 12-04-2024
You keep saying we haven't understood the medieval mind. But 131 pages into this thread, and I don't think we've seen any example of a contemporary manuscript that is "no text but a visual code". Nor do I think we've seen any match up between any page of the Voynich and a star chart or other kind of astrological or astronomical record.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 13-04-2024
I have explained how to read the f67v2. If you have a better explanation, I would like to know it. I have said more than once that the only parallel of the VM is the lapidary of Alfonso, with equivalent zodiac pages.
Tavie, if you read what I write, try to read everything
RE: No text, but a visual code - tavie - 13-04-2024
Yes, that's my point. The Lapidary of Alfonso, which contains...text. A lot of it. I don't see how the problem can be our failure to understand the medieval mind, otherwise wouldn't we be tripping over "no text but a visual code" manuscripts from the time?
We know there were different beliefs back then that connected medicine to astrology. It's very plausible that part of the manuscript deals with this. It's even possible that parts are about the believed relationships between the stars and herbs. But...how do you convey this relationship without...text? With absolutely no words? In an entire manuscript?
The reason your theory has yet to be accepted has nothing to do with any failure to understand "the medieval mind". It is because
- you haven't shown any example of a text-free contemporary manuscript;
- you haven't explained why the manuscript would be utterly text-free (no commentary? no introduction or labelling? no explanations?); and
- you haven't been able to match up any part of the Voynich to a star chart or otherwise text-free astrological system.
(And yes I have read through all 131 pages of your thread. But I have said somewhere in it before that when so many of the posts are "bumps", your points are going to be easily lost in it all, and it discourages re-reading).
RE: No text, but a visual code - nablator - 13-04-2024
Antonio García Jiménez Wrote:I don't think the script matches astrological/astronomical events. Glyph associations are simply celestial configurations without much importance.
Show how "celestial configurations without much importance" are structured like Voynichese or stop pretending that you have a theory.
Maybe you mean a tentative hypothesis that requires no evidence. In this case it is not a scientific theory. I will never understand the appeal of an evidence-less "theory". Either you have evidence and your belief has a foundation or you only have a belief, and it is misleading to call it a "theory".
About your claim of "no other reasonable explanation"... you don't have an explanation. Not the beginning of any idea of how to explain the non-text. You only have a belief. How is it "reasonable" to believe without evidence?
Quote:I don't see the results you're talking about anywhere. Not a single word has been translated in over a hundred years. Show me otherwise if I'm wrong. Any theory based on a language, whether natural or encrypted, has no foundation whatsoever.
There are statistical results that support several hoax theories. There are many solutions that you are somehow unable to see (all wrong, but they exist) including many translations of entire pages or more. Evidence has been presented for these theories and its value can be discussed. The failure of all natural language substitution ciphers does not make your non-theory a success.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 13-04-2024
These attacks are not new. I've had them for six years and much stronger.
tavie, that's exactly what I'm saying: an entire 200+ page manuscript without a single word. If I can't prove it, you and no one can ever disprove it.
nablator, what you say about entire pages and more being translated has given me a good time. Very funny
RE: No text, but a visual code - nablator - 13-04-2024
(13-04-2024, 04:24 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If I can't prove it, you and no one can ever disprove it.
This is the lamest, clueless excuse ever. Open a book about epistemology, you might learn something.
Quote:nablator, what you say about entire pages and more being translated has given me a good time. Very funny
Well it's true. Hundreds of partial or full solutions have been published.
You want funny facts? I'll give you a funny fact: you would have a better "theory", with better evidence (better than none is easy) claiming that the VMs is a book of health recipes and charms for goats. Like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but for goats and written in the language of the goats.
Evidence for the theory:
- Goat language is remarkably repetitive.
- Very low entropy: baaaaaa baaaaaaaa etc. but goats can hear subtle differences that we can't.
- You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., which might explain the evolution of Voynichese.
- The goat on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. agrees.
You can't prove me wrong!