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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 27-04-2019
Some people who have thoroughly investigated the VMS, like Stolfi or the professor at Yale University Robert Brumbaugh, believed that the glyphs of the script were numbers or had numeric values. I don't think so but it's worth taking their observations into account.
Above all there is a clear fact that can't be ignored: the glyphs 8 (Eva-d) and the old Arabic shape of number 4 (Eva-l) they both look like numbers as we see in countless manuscripts of the time.
If we star thinking otherwise, maybe we'll get somewhere
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 27-04-2019
(27-04-2019, 09:18 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Some people who have thoroughly investigated the VMS, like Stolfi or the professor at Yale University Robert Brumbaugh, believed that the glyphs of the script were numbers or had numeric values. I don't think so but it's worth taking their observations into account.
Above all there is a clear fact that can't be ignored: the glyphs 8 (Eva-d) and the old Arabic shape of number 4 (Eva-l) they both look like numbers as we see in countless manuscripts of the time.
If we star thinking otherwise, maybe we'll get somewhere
I honestly don't think the shape of the glyphs matter (other than the fact that they are mostly Latin shapes, which means the person who designed the script using a lot of Latin letters, abbreviations, and numbers, and positioned many of them as such, was probably very FAMILIAR with Latin conventions).
What is a stronger argument for numbers is the way they are organized. When trying to decipher unknown glyphs, structure should always take precedence over shape. There isn't even any way to know (yet) if EVA-d is patterned after a letter or a number. The letters "d" and "s" were also written this way in medieval script.
What worries me about your idea, Antonio, is not that you think they are numbers, but that you think (because some of them look like numbers) that they are a specific kind of number related to stars. But numbers can be a lot of things... calendars, moon tables, easter calculations, and a whole lot more.
Before forming a theory that they are astrological/labe coordinates, why not look at how they are structured and where they appear throughout the text, and THEN decide what kind of numbers they might be.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 28-04-2019
The examples that you put JKP (calendars, moon tables, easter calculations) are also astronomical ones. Logically,
if 8 and 4 are numbers they must have an astronomical meaning, given that the half of the imagery of the VMS is astronomical.
Sorry but I do believe the shape of the glyphs matter. I think the c, cc, ccc are different positions of the Moon, and it's the shape of this glyph what makes me think in the Moon.
I can be wrong, of course, but at least I came out of the damn circle, that kind of curse that is to think that the VMS script is a verbal language, something that has not given any fruit in more than one hundred years of research.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 01-05-2019
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I highly recommend to see the pictures of this book from the National Library of Spain contemporary of the VMS. It's the Tratado de Astrologia, attributed to the Marquis Enrique de Villena.
You will see in the margins of the images something very similar to some images of the VMS. Specifically, this kind of pine cones or umbrellas that we see in the pages of nude ladies and the Rosettes.
It is of course a representation of the eighth sphere where the fixed stars are. A powerful proof that the women are actually the stars
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 01-05-2019
If you are talking about the lace-sleeved manicules in the margins, I don't think they look very much like the pine-cone textures in the VMS (only superficially, scaly patterns were common in medieval manuscripts).
But... I do like the list of abbreviations for the months...
enero, f, m, a, mayu/mayo, iunio, iu, ag, s, o, n, de
If these were ciphered, they would be hard to recognize.
The month names in dialect are interesting too, for example, Agosto, Setienbre, Octubre, Novienbre, etc.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 01-05-2019
(01-05-2019, 04:10 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I highly recommend to see the pictures of this book from the National Library of Spain contemporary of the VMS. It's the Tratado de Astrologia, attributed to the Marquis Enrique de Villena.
You will see in the margins of the images something very similar to some images of the VMS. Specifically, this kind of pine cones or umbrellas that we see in the pages of nude ladies and the Rosettes.
It is of course a representation of the eighth sphere where the fixed stars are. A powerful proof that the women are actually the stars
Could you please supply the page numbers you are referring to?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 02-05-2019
On the double page number 110, you can see well in the margins this kind of pine cones. They are like the ripples or undulationes that we see, par example, in Nicole Oresme's Livre du Ciel et du monde, but it is as if the author wanted to represent the ripples in perspective, in space.
It is a form of representation similar to that of the VMS. You can even guess where the famous armadillo came from.
On the page 88 there is an image of the sphere curdled with stars. At the poles you can see tubes like in the VMS. They are the tubes used by the stars to go down to Earth
RE: No text, but a visual code - ReneZ - 02-05-2019
(01-05-2019, 04:10 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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Well, this is a very nice manuscript!
RE: No text, but a visual code - VViews - 02-05-2019
Thanks for this reference Antonio Garcia Jimenez!
I take it the designs on the outside of the circular diagram here are the ones you are referring to?
![[Image: villena.png]](https://voynichviews.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/villena.png)
RE: No text, but a visual code - -JKP- - 02-05-2019
I think it's a lovely manuscript.
Personally, I think it's stylistically quite different from the VMS even though there are lots of textural details. Also, it's more technical than the VMS.
The VMS author is definitely interested in detail, but I never get the impression that the VMS designer/creator had a strong analytical/mathematical leaning.