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+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 23-01-2024
You've done it again R. Sale. You have taken advantage of my thread again to tell your historical novels!
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 23-01-2024
Hi AGJ,
1) It's not *your* thread. You may have started it, but you don't own it.
2) You had no complaints when Koen made the original post #1,231 about the structure in the violet illustration.
3) I believe I am allowed to make relevant comments on such postings.
4) The information I posted comes from valid historical sources.
5) The information posted confirms your thesis: that there is a visual code used in the VMs. There is more to be found than just the one code system that you have proposed.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 24-01-2024
I'm very bored having to answer you R. Sale.
Of course this is my thread and mine alone. My theory is not just a theory, it is the only solution to Voynich. I don't care if you believe me or not or if you think I'm crazy. You, like anyone, can comment on any of the things I say, but what you can't do is talk about your own madness in my cell because there are more cells in this madhouse and everyone has their own.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 24-01-2024
Let's keep it civil, guys. We will try to stick to discussing Antonio's theory in this thread.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Hermes777 - 26-01-2024
It seems to me, Antonio, that your proposal has two parts:
1. The glyphs are not letters but rather visual symbols. We understand them from their shapes.
2. The glyphs are astronomical (or astrological) in nature.
The task, then, is to explain what the astronomical significance is of each of the glyph shapes. But, this should constitute a coherent system.
We could start with the [o] glyph. Conceivably, it could represent the Sun (Sol). A good place to start.
In that case, the [e] glyph - half the [o] glyph - could represent the Moon (Luna).
That is at least a plausible beginning. After all, it is a common convention in Western astrology to represent the Sun as a circle (with or without a dot in the middle), and the Moon as a half-circle (or crescent).
A glyph like [d] might then be seen as some combination of Sun and Moon, some Soli-lunar cycle?
A glyph like [y] - an [o] with a backward pointing downwards tail - might signify the "declining Sun", the winter cycle?
I am generally sympathetic to this way of looking at the glyphs, and they might well be astronomical in nature, given the context.
I explore similar things at my blog in recent posts. Especially see this post:
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My study could be seen as consistent with your point of view, or could be adapted to it by giving the process I describe astronomical correlates.
Hope this helps.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 27-01-2024
Hermes 777, first of all I want to show you my sympathy. After a few years you are the first member of this forum who sees my theory as something possible. This does not mean that I have a feeling of antipathy towards everyone else. I understand that they don't see it the way I see it and it seems very respectable to me. But it's so gratifying to find someone who can see it the way I see it!.
I have seen your website and find interesting things, although I get the impression that you have not yet gotten rid of the major prejudice that I see in the VM investigation. For me there is no text, no words, none. Only astronomical symbols.
Does this make sense? I think so, for the people who made this codex it did.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Hermes777 - 28-01-2024
You take an uncompromising and (some would say) dogmatic position, Antonio, but it serves a good purpose. Because you (and you alone) keep insisting that we stop thinking of this text as any kind of language in the ordinary sense. I am certainly willing to suspend that idea and consider the text quite differently.
And, as you insist, this means thinking about the glyphs quite differently.
It is an oddly eclectic assembly of glyphs of various sorts purloined from Latin manuscripts. On what basis have they been selected?
Perhaps, as you insist, on the basis of their shape, appearance, form, rather than their previous linguistic associations.
In that case, I think a word that might be applied is mantic. The glyphs are mantic. Words are mantic formulae.
Leaving aside all linguistic considerations, I propose there are two basic formulae, and all "words" are different arrangements of them. It is possible to give this an astronomical reading.
I think that might be a productive path towards what you have been insisting upon in this thread, Antonio.
My current suspicion, though, is that rather than being astronomical it is, more broadly, calendrical - although this can mean much the same thing as astronomical since it involves cycles of celestial bodies.
If you adjust how you see it just slightly, Antonio, I think a productive line of inquiry opens up.
I think your intiuition is good. Not a text... Images... Astronomical...
I am coming at it differently, but it turns out I'm following much the same hunch at the moment.
New explorations of this at my blog, going through it step by step:
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in the end, we might be in agreement.
R.B.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 29-01-2024
As I have said on many occasions, what I believe is that the VM is above all an astrological book and what it shows is the influence that the stars of the zodiac have on the virtues of medicinal plants. Therefore, I believe that there is complete coherence between the imagery and the script.
I see that you continue talking about nymphs and for me that is an error of interpretation because we immediately think of beings or spirits related to water, and what I believe is that the numerous female figures are a representation of the stars of the zodiac that naturally when they descend to the Earth through this entire system of pipes bring with them the water necessary for the plants.
I deduce the script from my interpretation of the imagery. And that is why I believe that glyphs are only symbols with astronomical value and that the glyph [o], which is the most common, is a representation of the stars.
I am firmly opposed to considering that the glyphs derive from letters of the Latin alphabet or from Latin abbreviations, but it is purely common sense. This codex was studied in the 17th century by people who knew more Latin than anyone in the 21st century and no one saw the slightest connection with the Latin writing system.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Hermes777 - 29-01-2024
There is at least a resemblance between some Voynich glyphs and Latin letters, surely, but I see what you are insisting upon. We should consider the glyphs purely in visual terms, without any reference to Latin or other linguistic precedents. We should think of them as having been designed a priori, from scratch, as a visual code. All linguistic references are misleading.
A parallel, I guess, is found in aspects of the Hebrew Kabbalah. They study the characters of the Torah every which way. Including just as visual images, separate from all linguistic meanings or associations. Hebrew is well suited to this. We could do something similar to the Voynich text.
Forget all similarities to Latin letters. Look at the glyphs as if they were designed as a set from scratch.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 13-02-2024
Why does the VM script have to be a linguistic code? Humanity has always known how to communicate without words. There are other non-linguistic communication systems.
Why can't the VM be a book that uses symbols to communicate, especially at a time when the majority of people were illiterate?