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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 19-10-2023
Tiltman thought something similar to Friedman's idea but more complex. His hypothesis was also based on a universal synthetic language but as he himself said the script could be a cumbersome mixture of different kinds of substitution.
Tiltman cited Cave Beck's The Universal Character published shortly before Wilkins's. In Beck's work, 4,000 essential words are replaced by numbers and a set of letters serve to form morphemes and tenses.
The fundamental thing about the ideas of these two great cryptanalysts and Voynich researchers of the 20th century, Friedman and Tiltman, is that they both thought that the VM glyphs, or at least a good part of them, had a semantic value and could be replaced by concepts.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 26-10-2023
I am going to show with some graphic examples how glyph blocks cannot be words of a language, neither natural nor encrypted.
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In these examples, and there are more, you can see how the scribe fits the glyphs into the gaps left by stems, branches or flowers.
The scribe makes the adjustment in such a way that the glyph block maintains the rigid structure that governs the formation of the blocks, the so-called script grammar. He removes and adds glyphs at will without being guided by a coherence of meaning in terms of language. This is what some of us know as playing Lego by putting and removing pieces.
There are those who see this strange behavior as proof that we are dealing with a hoax or something meaningless. For me it is proof that we are dealing with glyphs that, in the mind of the scribe, each one of them has its own meaning.
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 26-10-2023
(26-10-2023, 04:29 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.you can see how the scribe fits the glyphs into the gaps left by stems, branches or flowers.
I could rather imagine that the words that fit so conspicuously well into the spaces are filler words. That would mean that they actually have no relation to the rest of the text, but are meaningless.
RE: No text, but a visual code - oshfdk - 26-10-2023
(26-10-2023, 04:29 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The scribe makes the adjustment in such a way that the glyph block maintains the rigid structure that governs the formation of the blocks, the so-called script grammar. He removes and adds glyphs at will without being guided by a coherence of meaning in terms of language. This is what some of us know as playing Lego by putting and removing pieces.
I'm not sure I understand the problem. Fitting text within picture elements is quite common, especially in decorative works. Any particular character forms used can be explained as glyph variations. E.g., instead of writing "cuſ.<->tom" with a mid-word s, the scribe would write "cus.<->tom" with a word final s.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 26-10-2023
I don't see a problem either.
Based on my work, in order from top to bottom, with the combination EVA S "et, e+t) on the other side of the stem.
"ac" can also mean "as well as", "and also".
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 26-10-2023
Quote:oshfdk Wrote:
If you can read this why could not they ?
Because it just fits too well.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 26-10-2023
Why is this an 'either/or' question? Why not 'some of both'? VMs artistry has proven the use of "trickery". Why would deception be absent from the linguistic investigation?
So, what's with trickery and deception? An example is the use of attributes to establish identification. Another example is the use of heraldic canting. Another example is the use of visual ambiguity and intentional duplicity. Another example is the change from pictorial representation to linguistic description. Another example is the use of combined illustrations. Trickery, combined with a lack of relevant information, makes deception that much more effective. But information has started to catch up to the VMs: the little quatrefoils, the nebuly lines, the strange, little cosmos with its curved spokes, Melusine and other stories, the historical Fieschi popes.
Has the same sort of trickery been applied to the linguistic situation? If the available methodology is relevant to the 15th Century, then even the creator of the VMs written text might assume that any available method of secret communication would not withstand subsequent investigation. What can be done?
Creation of a cryptic text requires two elements. First there is the methodology, but there is also the specific passage of the written text. If the methodology cannot be disguised, how about hiding the relevant text passages among other passages of nonsense text? Perhaps the trail of quatrefoil breadcrumbs and the tradition of the red galaero will indicate a way forward.
RE: No text, but a visual code - oshfdk - 26-10-2023
(26-10-2023, 07:29 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Because it just fits too well.
This could be subjective, to my eyes it doesn't fit well at all. There are two points where characters touch the image lines and some of the characters appear visually squeezed.
The following examples from Alice in Wonderland do a much better job at fitting text into a much more complicated shape You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I'm not a designer but I have had some experience ordering designs with text elements, I would fire the Voynich scribe for this one
RE: No text, but a visual code - Juan_Sali - 26-10-2023
In the first pages of this manuscript You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., text is written around some plant images.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 26-10-2023
Great book. Already on the first pages the writer does the same thing.