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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 16-07-2023
It's not about how many women or percentages,
it's about that sentence.
"If someone sees a male figure or it is a misperception or the result of a humorous trait of the author of the VM."
It is not a misinterpretation, or a joke by the author, nor is it an exception.
They are there and probably have a meaning.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 16-07-2023
(16-07-2023, 03:12 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.They are there and probably have a meaning.
That is true, there are enough male characters to assume that they were intended to be there, these can't all be mistakes or ambiguous cases. Still, the percentage of female figures is remarkable.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 16-07-2023
Are there really 25 male figures? I don't see them anywhere.
Aga, the six men you have pointed out are all castrated. I don't see the appendage that distinguishes us from women. In addition to the fact that they are all with a point of makeup.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 16-07-2023
It's not so much about whether there are many males among the female nymphs. Females and males appear to be paired at the top of VMs Pisces. There are 'problems' with the dark ink "do overs". The question is about individual and group identity of the different character representations in the VMs. The first nymphs of the VMs zodiac sequence are clearly sidereal, but does that interpretation function uniformly for all nymphs or does the VMs artist also introduce nymphs from a second realm which is "water"?
A nymph and a star make a clear association. A nymph and a serpentine, undulating, meandering squiggle is *not* a clear association of any kind. That is / was the problem of interpretation, the lack of proper and relevant terminology. The example and definition have been found in early heraldry. The bulbous line pattern is a nebuly / gewolkt line with the specific cloud-based connotations throughout medieval European heraldry. A nymph and a cloud make a clear association. It is a different realm. It is an equivalent association.
The individual VMs people differ widely in their appearance and the attributes that some of them possess: rings, crosses, spindles, etc. There are paintings of rings of angels, where each one is identical. That's not the VMs. Some of the nymphs, at least, are clearly individuals.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 16-07-2023
Please, less speculation and more empirical data. Where are those 25 male figures, or are they non-binary?
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 16-07-2023
Males, sans genitalia, are not that uncommon in medieval illustrative art. It was a choice made by multiple artists. In the VMs it seems simple. Those VMs characters drawn with breasts are female. The others are debatable on an individual basis. Hairstyles seem indicative, for example.
Yes, the VMs artist does have a sense of humor and is prone to trickery - the "mermaid" Melusine and others.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 16-07-2023
I am not asking now what is female and what is male.
I'm just saying you should rethink your theory.
Furthermore:
In a discussion there are pros and cons.
If everyone is of the same opinion and everyone says yes, there is no discussion.
In the end, you want to find the truth.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 16-07-2023
That's what it's all about, seeking and finding the truth. And for that it is necessary to get rid of many things that are taken for granted.
You give me as an example images of two figures that the author has drawn without a bulging chest but with rouge on their cheeks like the others. Do you really think they are male figures?
This issue would not matter much if at least 20% male figures were clearly drawn. But no, the author has shown a stubborn will and wanted to draw female figures, up to 530 or almost. Why has he done it? Why do those drawn in the zodiacal section almost correspond to those of Quire 13? These are the questions to try to answer.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 17-07-2023
In the past, people used to pinch their cheeks to get a little blush.
Speaking of realism, the sun and the moon have no faces. But these do. Ergo, not stars but flowers.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 17-07-2023
You are correct that the author identifies the stars with the flowers. He establishes a connection between them.
That the sun and the moon in the Voynich have faces is something that is not surprising to anyone who knows the constant recourse to allegory that was made in the Middle Ages. The planets were habitually represented as men and women, and the same occurs in the VM with the zodiacal fixed stars. They are personified as women.