+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
RE: No text, but a visual code - nablator - 18-06-2023
Nobody knew the (correct) cycle of water until the 17th century, when it was first calculated that precipitations alone were more than sufficient to account for the water flow of the river Seine.
Plato and other Greek philosophers believed that springs and rivers originated from purified sea water transported underground. Aristotle improved the theory by suggesting vapor transport through caverns from the sea and condensation at springs.
In the VM spirits of the air (known as sylphs after Paracelse) transport the heavenly water through tubes until it ends up in rivers or in the atmosphere as rain, snow or hail, depicted exiting the tubes on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 18-06-2023
It seems that quoting Paracelsus is somewhat achronistic. Any theory whose time frame goes beyond 1350-1450 is hardly credible.
In the Voynich there are tubes and there is what looks like water. But formulating a theory with these elements must take into account all parts of the book. For example, the green color that seems to denote water does not appear on the pages of the Rosettes, which is a representation of the universe.
Likewise, the fundamental element of iconography must be interpreted: the female figures. Are they water spirits or are they astral spirits as I believe?
In the cosmological diagrams of the VM the planets do not appear. It is further indication that the Voynich is a lapidary-like herbarium of stones that receive their magical properties solely from the stars of the zodiac.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 20-06-2023
The only way to progress in the interpretation of the VM is to compare it with works of its time. Let's see a great contemporary work of art: The Wilton Diptych.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
We see among the saints that accompany King Ricardo Eduardo the confessor with his attribute the ring that identifies him. The ring has a sapphire.
In the VM we see two female figures with a ring with a precious stone in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and f80v. Comparing the drawing with the Wilton diptych there is no doubt that it is about rings with precious stones.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
How do we interpret this? For me there is no doubt. It is about showing with two examples the brightness of the stars. Other elements carried by the figures point to the same interpretation: they are the fixed stars.
But let's look at the right side of the diptych. Both the Virgin and the angels share the same face. There is hardly any variety. It is about showing that they are not beings of this world. Except for some exceptions in the faces of the female figures, there is no variety in the VM either. The artist has drawn a model and repeats it and repeats it. It is a way of alluding to the fact that they are not beings of this world either.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 21-06-2023
I don't think that proposed uniformity is entirely accurate. While there are sections that look like it's just one nymph after another, there are also numerous examples of nymphs that are quite unusual, if not unique. And it is not just their faces, it is also things that they hold, clothing, crowns, and hats that they wear. These are their attributes.
There's a short guy, just after six o'clock in the outer ring of Gemini. He is standing on some object. This is not "just another generic angel"! He clearly does not fit the profile. It's 'Whoozit' the Short. It's Pepin and Mrs. the Short. Who can say the artist did not have a sense of humor?
Heraldry played a significant role - well beyond the VMs C-14 dates. Royalty is sometimes represented in clothing with heraldic emblems. On VMs White Aries outer ring at two o'clock, there is an attractive nymph in a green dress. If this clothing is heraldic, she is the wife of the Green Knight. This is Lady Bertilak, of literary fame.
There are certain interesting details in the biography of Colette of Corbie regarding a mystical ring and cross. She died in 1447. So, while many of the nymphs possess no attributes, those that do could be interpreted as having individual identities for those few examples where we can properly recover and recognize their historical attributes. The combined heraldry of the Genoese Gambit, for example.
As far as gems in rings, they became part of that whole system of sympathetic associations that culminated with Ficino. Something like: astronomical planet <> classical deity <> astrological influence <> Metals <> Gems <> Colors <> ETC.
If the stones in the rings cannot be identified, what more can be said? If those are the only stones in the VMs, what more can be done?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 22-06-2023
R. Sale I have already told you once that you have a prodigious imagination. I think as a novelist you would be very successful.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 23-06-2023
In Quire 13 some female figures hold spindles. Up to four. The nature of these objects was doubtful until Koen G, I seem to remember, provided a revealing image.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
And this is one of the illustrations of the VM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In the image of the work in the Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal, it is a cosmic spindle handled by the Fates, the goddesses who spun the duration of life. The background of stars is noteworthy, since the spindle also alludes to them.
In the Voynich it is the same stars personified in the female figures that spin time. This interpretation is consistent with other objects that others carry, such as rings with precious stones, alluding to their brilliance.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 27-06-2023
It certainly looks like the same object in both illustrations, but, perhaps, there are a few other technical difficulties.
The historical illustration is BNF Arsenal 5061, Jean Thenaud, Traité de la cabale, 1519; made for Francis I. And the caption reads - The image of Dame Necessity and the Universe. [If I got it right.] Additionally, there are the three Fates, doing their thing.
The Fates are the Moirai.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Note the images at the right: #1) dated 1530; and #6) dated 1520. There are the three Fates doing their thing. However, there is no Dame Necessity and there is no object comparable to the cosmic spindle. While these three references are contemporary among themselves, they are nearly a century late for the VMs C-14 dates.
The Fates always appear as a trio, but in the VMs the nymph is singular. Has Clotho gone off on her own? Who holds the cosmic spindle? Is it Dame Necessity?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 29-06-2023
There is an iconographic similarity, not narrative. In the BNF Arsenal 5061 a Neoplatonic theory is exposed with the Dame Necessity or the soul of the world and the idea of time is exposed with the three Fates or Moirai. It has nothing to do with the content of the Voynich. But there is an iconographic coincidence with the spindle to show the time.
The fact that there is an interval of one hundred years between the two images is irrelevant for these purposes. In the VM it is the stars of the zodiac, personified in female figures, that do the work of spinning time. The metaphor is clear. The stars turn forever.
Honestly, I think it's not that difficult to understand this.
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 29-06-2023
For those who are mythologically challenged, such as myself, it turns out that Dame Necessity, (Ananke, in Greek) is the mother of the Moirai (Fates). She is mentioned in Plato and is associated with the spindle and with the cosmos. The Spindle of Necessity is the cosmic axis.
Both the object and the nymph are thus identified. And the object itself can be seen to have been built as a rebus. The axis of the cosmos, the spindle of Ananke, the cosmic spindle has been turned into a spindle that represents the cosmos. It's very clear in 5061. It's a rebus. The VMs representation looks like a derivative image, like something that has been borrowed from a more detailed original.
This technique of turning the cosmos into a spindle is a distinctive bit of trickery, given there are currently only the two known sources. Does this have any influence on the date of VMs composition? Perhaps other data will turn up?
The stars are not difficult to 'understand'; they are the background against which the action takes place.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 30-06-2023
It is not necessary to complicate things or allude to mythological stories. Just see what you have in front of your eyes.
In my opinion, one of the most important obstacles to understanding VM iconography is to continue calling the female figures nymphs, implying that they are supernatural beings related to water, above all.
Female figures continue to be called that despite the fact that since the 20th century there has been a highly authoritative opinion, an iconologist and one of the greatest art historians, Erwin Panofsky, who called them astral spirits.